cables in panel for rough in

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JKinPA

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Are you required to have all the cables pulled into the breaker panel for the rough inspection?

Thanks,
Jeff
 
Its a good practice to get into.
Rough in inspection means you are done till after the sheetrock is finished.
How can you be done & ready for a sheetrock cover if your panel is not installed & wire not inside of it?
 
If the panel box is in an accesible area as in an unfinished basement, we do not have to have the wires in the box. As long as the inspector can see the wires later it would not matter (around here). I suspect many inspector want it done at rough in so they won't have to open the panel again.. I hope not but I cannot see why you would have to if the wall the wires are coming down is visible.
 
I honestly don't know what the rules are in my area, but I have all the grounds and neutrals made up in the panel for rough-in.
 
I like to tie everything into a panel during rough, but usually save that for rainy day and fillers.... all my jobs have basements so it really does not matter when I do it...
 
Around here, we must have all EGC's throughout the house made up for a rough-in. Beyond that, I make up all connections during rough, because it helps make sure I haven't left anything out. I go as far as stripping and hooking device conductors, and positioning switch wires.

The panel inspection is separate, if we wish an early okay-to-energize for the POCO, in which case we must have all of the panel grounding and neutrals made up, along with a single-outlet circuit, such as the laundry receptacle, protected by a GFCI for use by the building crews.
 
LarryFine said:
along with a single-outlet circuit, such as the laundry receptacle, protected by a GFCI for use by the building crews.
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Not a bad plan at all but it is worth noting that neither OSHA or the NEC requires the EC to provide GFCI protection to permanent receptacles for use by the trades.
 
iwire said:
Not a bad plan at all but it is worth noting that neither OSHA or the NEC requires the EC to provide GFCI protection to permanent receptacles for use by the trades.
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No, this is for temporary use. For final, a standard receptacle is installed.
 
iwire said:
Not a bad plan at all but it is worth noting that neither OSHA or the NEC requires the EC to provide GFCI protection to permanent receptacles for use by the trades.
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Bob, how do you interpret 590.6(A) which seems to require permanent receptacles installed for temporary power to be GFCI protected?
 
LarryFine said:
No, this is for temporary use. For final, a standard receptacle is installed.
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Larry, again I point out it is a great idea and I would likely do it in those circumstances.

No NEC rule requires a temporary plug be installed.

If you choose to use a circuit that is part of the permanent premises wiring system it is not 'temporary wiring' look at the scope of 590.

Any trades that use this standard receptacle would be required by OSHA to use a GFCI protected cord.

It may sound like I am being nit picky (guess I am:D ) but the interpretation of this can be costly.

Consider the large offices we build, during the early stages we provide temporary power via GFCI outlets located throughout the building.

At some point this temporary wiring has to go and we must start turning on the permanent circuits. When we do that the building is still under construction so the trades have to start using the permanent wiring. When they do this we do not have to provide GFCI protection, if that trade wants to comply with OSHA they will need a GFCI cord.

It is not the ECs responsibility to provide GFCI protection to permanent wiring used by the trades for power.
 
In my jurisdiction for Combo Inspection you must have all conductor wires pulled to the service panel or sub-panel. Here in S.CA we have very few basements. Nothing left nested without a home.
 
The last time I tried to use building wiring and receptacles for power during construction the inspector told me the only way they (the city) would release the service for connection by the PoCo would be for me to have every outlet that is installed to be GFCI protected.

It wasn't a big deal for me, so I didn't challenge him. I wanted power.

And, he said it was my responsibility to insure non GFCI receptacles did not get installed for use during construction.
 
I have ran across that! I just keep 4-5 gfci breakers on hand and put them in the panel and give the finished runs to the contractors for inside use. Pull them when done and put in normal breakers. That way I can finish my work and not have to replace receptacles just a few breakers. Never had a question that way.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
The last time I tried to use building wiring and receptacles for power during construction the inspector told me the only way they (the city) would release the service for connection by the PoCo would be for me to have every outlet that is installed to be GFCI protected.
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And, he said it was my responsibility to insure non GFCI receptacles did not get installed for use during construction.
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Lou, the inspector was mistaken unless there is a local amendment.

Neither the NEC or OSHA require that.

The NEC never requires that permanent wiring be treated as temporary wiring.

Here is an OSHA standard interpretation on this issue.

I made the interesting parts red.

Scenario: The general contractor for a construction site brings in an electrical subcontractor (Sub E) to install temporary electrical power for the use of other subcontractors. That contract does not specifically require Sub E to install ground-fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs), nor does it specifically require that Sub E establish assured equipment grounding programs. Once the temporary electric power is installed, Sub E does not use it. Does ?1926.404(b)(1) require Sub E to provide and install GFCIs on all the circuits for the benefit of the other subcontractors?

Answer: Section 1926.404(b)(1)(i) provides:
Branch circuits -- (1) Ground-fault protection -- (i) General. The employer shall use either ground fault circuit interrupters as specified in paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section or an assured equipment grounding conductor program ["AEGCP"] as specified in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section to protect employees on construction sites. These requirements are in addition to any other requirements for equipment conductors. [Emphasis added.]
Therefore, under paragraph (b)(1)(i), the employer is required to provide ground fault protection -- either by the use of ground fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs) or by the use of an assured equipment grounding conductor program.

The Preamble to Subpart K "Electrical,"1 includes a discussion of why individual employers might choose a particular option to satisfy their obligation under this standard:
* * * ...an employer may choose one method of protection or the other on the basis of several factors. The individual employer may choose on the basis of cost; if his local jurisdiction already requires GFCI's, he may choose GFCI's; if he is one employer of many on a construction site, the availability of alternatives gives him flexibility to coordinate compliance.

This discussion reflects an intent that the term "employer" as used in ?1926.404(b)(1), when applied in the context of a construction site with multiple employers, includes each individual employer/subcontractor.2 The Agency did not intend to require that one electrical subcontractor provide one manner of protection to each and every one of the user/subcontractors. Rather, with respect to each employer/subcontractor on the site that has exposed employees, each would be obligated to ensure that one of the options in ?1926.404(b)(1) is in "use."

Therefore, in this scenario ?1926.404(b)(1)(i) does not require Sub E to provide and install GFCIs or establish assured equipment grounding programs for the benefit of the other subcontractors that will be using the circuits.

Recommendation
Where an electrical subcontractor's contract with the general contractor does not specify that it is to install GFCI protection in this type of scenario, we strongly recommend that the general contractor inform the employers that will be using the electrical circuits that GFCI protection has not been installed and to remind those employers of their responsibilities under ?1926.404(b)(1).
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The entire text can be found here.

Standard Interpretation. Requirement for electrical subcontractor under 1926.404(b)(1) to provide ground-fault circuit interrupters on circuits used by other subcontractors.

Keep in mind I am talking code here, not what I may or may not do or what I think is a good idea. :)
 
infinity said:
Bob, how do you interpret 590.6(A) which seems to require permanent receptacles installed for temporary power to be GFCI protected?
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It says GFCI cord sets are acceptable......just like OSHA does.
 
iwire said:
Keep in mind I am talking code here, not what I may or may not do or what I think is a good idea. :)
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Bob,

I understand. I am positive that you have the code down pat. The older I get the more I feel like picking my battles. I used to enjoy battles, actually looked for them, lol. I'm starting to be more compromising these days.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
The older I get the more I feel like picking my battles.
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I agree 100%. :)

In Larry's example of a simple laundry circuit I would without question throw a GFCI in.

On the other hand in the large buildings we do with hundreds, perhaps thousands of receptacles that need to be energized and tested I would have to fight the notion that I can't fire them up unless I GFCI protect them......that would be a PITA to say the least.
 
In order to get temp. power to a residence in NC there are state mandated guidelines. One of the stipulations is that only GFCI circuits are energized for 120 volt receptacles.

We usually get a 90 day temp. power application after the sheetrock is installed so that we can turn the heat or a/c on to the dwelling. I usually will energize the bath receptacles on each level and if the house is very long I will energized a GFCI circuit somewhere else (kitchen usually).

The NEC may not stipulate this but the state ordinance mandates it.
 
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