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Calculation

Therealcrt

Member
Location
Kansas City
Occupation
Electrician
I’m doing a class AC Theory and it’s asking me what is the frequency at infinity times the resonant frequency of the circuit. Then the next questions are similar asking what’s the XL and XC of the circuit at infinite frequency. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE MULTIPLYING TIMES INFINITY AND HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO
 

JoeStillman

Senior Member
Location
West Chester, PA
It's easy. Just divide by zero. Same as multiplying by infinity. People do it all the time. Only calculators and computers can't figure out how to do it. That's why their intelligence is all artificial.
 

Therealcrt

Member
Location
Kansas City
Occupation
Electrician
The question is determine the frequency at Infiniti times. The resonant frequency for the circuit shown. The resident frequency is 2056000 Hertz.
 

Therealcrt

Member
Location
Kansas City
Occupation
Electrician
The only three answers available are zero 75 or infinity then the next questions are determine the inductive reactants and capacitive reactants for the circuit shown times infinity I don’t get it
 

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I can't quite say from your description of the questions, but it is often useful to think of infinity and zero frequency when looking at AC circuits to understand what happens as all the inductive and capacitive components essentially become opens or shorts. Inductors become opens at infinity and shorts at zero, and capacitors become shorts at infinity and opens at zero. So, at infinite frequency there is no reactive impedance (XL or XC) because they have become purely resistive as shorts (0 ohms) or opens (infinite ohms).
 

Elect117

Senior Member
Location
California
Occupation
Engineer E.E. P.E.
Have you determined the equation for the frequency domain for the circuit?

Anything times infinity is infinity unless you have someone approaching infinity faster, but all that is more advanced calculus. Since your occupation is electrician, I am guessing it is just designed to confuse you.

Can you take a snap shot and post it?
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
...I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE MULTIPLYING TIMES INFINITY AND HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO
Me either. Infinity times. or plus, or minus, or divided by any number (even infinity) is still infinity. Calculus 101.
 

Carultch

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I’m doing a class AC Theory and it’s asking me what is the frequency at infinity times the resonant frequency of the circuit. Then the next questions are similar asking what’s the XL and XC of the circuit at infinite frequency. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE MULTIPLYING TIMES INFINITY AND HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO
They are asking you, in the limit as the frequency approaches infinity, what is the reactance?

The impedance of a capacitor is 1/(j*ω*C)
The impedance of an inductor is j*ω*L

L and C are component properties, ω is the frequency, in units of radians/second (that is, 2*π*f, if you prefer f in Hertz), and j is the imaginary unit. The imaginary component of impedance is reactance, so this means, once you clear all j's from the bottom, the number multiplied by j on the top, is the reactance.

For a capacitor, infinite ω means the impedance might as well be zero. So at high frequencies, a capacitor behaves as a short.
For an inductor, infinite ω means impedance might as well be infinite. So at high frequencies, an inductor behaves as an open gap.
The opposite behavior happens in the limit as ω approaches zero for steady state DC.

At resonance between an inductor and capacitor, there's a similar behavior of interest, when the reactances cancel each other. Ideal versions of these components in parallel, behave as an open gap. Ideal versions of these components in series, behave as a short.

Example:
A capacitor (C) is in series, with a parallel combination of a resistor (R) & inductor (L). The total impedance of this combination would be:
Znet = 1/(j*ω*C) + parallel(R, j*ω*L) =
Znet = 1/(j*ω*C) + (j*ω*L*R)/(R + (j*ω*L))

Simplify:
Znet = (L*ω + j*R*L*C*ω^2 - j*R)/(R*C*ω + j*L*C*ω^2)

As frequency approaches zero, only the lowest power of ω governs. Then set ω=0:
Znet0 = (-j*R)/(R*C*ω) = -j/(C*ω)
Take the limit as ω approaches zero from positive, and this approaches infinity.

At high frequencies, only the highest power of ω governs, so ignore all other terms. This gives us:
ZnetHF = (+j*R*L*C*ω^2)/(+j*L*C*ω^2) = R

This is consistent with what we expect. Low frequencies cause the capacitor acts as an open gap, blocking steady state current. At high frequencies, the inductor blocks its parallel path, the capacitor shorts the resistor to the source, so only the resistor governs the impedance.
 

Carultch

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Me either. Infinity times. or plus, or minus, or divided by any number (even infinity) is still infinity. Calculus 101.
Look up indeterminate forms.

Infinity/infinity is an indeterminate form, which means we need more information about how "fast" the top and bottom each approach infinity. It could resolve as zero (e.g. ln(x)/x), it could resolve as infinity (e.g. (x^2 + 1)/x), and it could also resolve as some ordinary number (e.g. ln(x^2 + 1)/ln(x) approaches 2 as x approaches infinity).
 
Last edited:

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Look up indeterminate forms.

Infinity/infinity is an indeterminate form, which means we need more information about how "fast" the top and bottom each approach infinity. It could resolve as zero (e.g. ln(x)/x), it could resolve as infinity (e.g. (x^2 + 1)/x), and it could also resolve as some ordinary number (e.g. ln(x^2 + 1)/ln(x) approaches 2 as x approaches infinity).
I know; I took lots of math in college. :D
 
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