California contractors licensing, please explain

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
let me see if I got this right, in California a C-10 electrical contractor is a regular licensed electrical contractor, and can pull electrical permits etc.
All the employees that make electrical installations need to be licensed as a California journeyman (one of several types) or an apprentice.
The owner or the holder of the c-10 does not need a journeyman license to qualify for the c-10 test, nor do they need to hold any other license to make electrical installations.
Next you have a general B contractor who can also make electrical installations and pull electrical permits.
So if say a general B is building an apartment building they can say "we'll do the electrical in house" and simply pull the electrical permit and just have their people wire it.
The owners or employees of a general B don't legally need to be licensed as California journeyman to make electrical installations under the general B.
The general B must do at least 2 trades so you could say your two trades were electrical and HVAC or solar or cleanup or whatever.
Do I have that right?
Thanks in advance
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
The only person that is exempt, is the license holder of a C10 Contractor License. All other employees of the C10 contractor, doing any type of electrical work, must have a valid electricians license with the State of California. A Class B general contractor is not exempt like a C10 electrical contractor, and his employees must also have a valid Electrican liccense withe the State of California to do any type of electrical work.
 
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mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
The only person that is exempt, is the license holder of a C10 Contractor License. All other employees of the C10 contractor, doing any type of electrical work, must have a valid electricians license with the State of California. A Class B general contractor is not exempt like a C10 electrical contractor, and his employees must also have a valid Electrican liccense withe the State of California to do any type of electrical work.
 

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  • Guide for Electricians and Trainees.pdf
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tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
A Class B general contractor is not exempt like a C10 electrical contractor, and his employees must also have a valid Electrican liccense withe the State of California to do any type of electrical work.
Ahh ha OK that would make sense, are you sure? Do you have a link to the law?
Looking over the law from the PDF it appears to only cover C10 employees.
Does not mention the general B ones.
Better law link https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=108.2.
 
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mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
On the last page of my "Attach Files" you will find a link for "Additional Questions" ... search through them to hopefully answere your question(s).

The only class that has an exemption is the Electrical Contractor, and that person who is named on the C10 License.
 
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curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
On the last page of my "Attach Files" you will find a link for "Additional Questions" ... search through them to hopefully answere your question(s).

The only class that has an exemption is the Electrical Contractor, and that person who is named on the C10 License.
Can you post the text that requires B (General Building) employees to be certified. As far as I remember it only applies to C10 and a few other limited electrical classifications.

The certification was never intended to be a safety thing. It originally was intended to limit all training and apprenticeship programs to one group that sponsored the requirements. Fortunately the sponsored group didn't get their way and all of their employees had to get tested to become certified too. Anyone that was on this forum when this was going on knew about it. There was a number of threads against the requirements. E57 was a very active member then.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2017 NEC

Thats right, without CA specialty class C10 employers, CA General Electrician Certification was never required, per CA Labor Code 108.2, previously CLC §3099.2

That means any Tom, Dick, or Harry with a business license & workman's Comp. for their laborers legally does electrical <= $500, if their advertising complies with CA Bus.Prof.Code 7027.2

Any General contractor (class B license) or other licenses described in CLC 108.2(b)2 always did unlimited contracts with electrical, subject only to plans & inspection approvals.

Further, since the great 2008 sequestration removed electricians from most local building departments in CA, in favor of entry-level combination inspectors & engineers to draft plans, and required owner builders to sign indemnity clauses for remodel projects, any Tom, Dick, or Harry can be approved for permits.
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
Can you post the text that requires B (General Building) employees to be certified. As far as I remember it only applies to C10 and a few other limited electrical classifications.

The certification was never intended to be a safety thing. It originally was intended to limit all training and apprenticeship programs to one group that sponsored the requirements. Fortunately the sponsored group didn't get their way and all of their employees had to get tested to become certified too. Anyone that was on this forum when this was going on knew about it. There was a number of threads against the requirements. E57 was a very active member then.
This is one of the Questions & Answer on "Additional Questions" ...
I am a foreman for a contractor and sometimes I work with the tools for that work. Do I have to be certified? Yes
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2017 NEC
Since this Certification / employee training law only targets California C10 electrical contractors, those who get their C10 eventually realize they are competing with GC labor shops for contruction bids, and handypersons for service work.

Frustrated C10 electricians report everybody to the license board, but it doesn't work againt GC's. The board dismissed my complaint against a GC advertising for remodels with electrical, even though electrical was not among his licensed specialty.

C10's who can't find a niche, or upsell enough panel upgrades, end up working for GC's, or with other hacks on remodels, and register themselves at the license board as exempt from workman's comp. without employees, or become the fall guy for some corporate developer, as their remote responsible-managing operator (RMO).
 
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curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
This is one of the Questions & Answer on "Additional Questions" ...
I am a foreman for a contractor and sometimes I work with the tools for that work. Do I have to be certified? Yes
Please post the text that it includes employees of other than C10 contractors. I have read the info in your link and everyting points to C10 Contractors. Don't just keep saying its there. Maybe its there and I and others have missed it.
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
Unfortunately, at this time the CSLB only enforces violations of the Contractors State License Law is when a consumer files a complaint against a contractor, or it is a "Sting" operation. This is because of limited resources.

On the other question of Responsible Managing Officer (RMO) who lend out their license to others that can't qualify for a license on their own. The CSLB is now actively enforcing the requirement that RMO must personaly supervise all projects of that contractor. Prviously it was discovered that the RMO were qualifying for multivable licenses at one time.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Thats right, without CA specialty class C10 employers, CA General Electrician Certification was never required, per CA Labor Code 108.2, previously CLC §3099.2

That means any Tom, Dick, or Harry with a business license & workman's Comp. for their laborers legally does electrical <= $500, if their advertising complies with CA Bus.Prof.Code 7027.2

Any General contractor (class B license) or other licenses described in CLC 108.2(b)2 always did unlimited contracts with electrical, subject only to plans & inspection approvals.

Further, since the great 2008 sequestration removed electricians from most local building departments in CA, in favor of entry-level combination inspectors & engineers to draft plans, and required owner builders to sign indemnity clauses for remodel projects, any Tom, Dick, or Harry can be approved for permits.
all I can say is Wow!
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
Please post the text that it includes employees of other than C10 contractors. I have read the info in your link and everyting points to C10 Contractors. Don't just keep saying its there. Maybe its there and I and others have missed it.
Try this link: https: //www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/ecu/ECU_FAQ.htm
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design

CHAPTER 4.5. Electrician Certification [108 - 108.5]

( Chapter 4.5 added by Stats. 2012, Ch. 46, Sec. 79. )


108.2.

(a) Persons who perform work as electricians shall become certified pursuant to Section 108. Uncertified persons shall not perform electrical work for which certification is required.
(b) (1) Certification is required only for those persons who perform work as electricians for contractors licensed as class C-10 electrical contractors under the Contractors’ State License Board Rules and Regulations.
(2) Certification is not required for persons performing work for contractors licensed as class C-7 low voltage systems or class C-45 electric sign contractors as long as the work performed is within the scope of the class C-7 or class C-45 license, including incidental and supplemental work as defined in Section 7059 of the Business and Professions Code, and regardless of whether the same contractor is also licensed as a class C-10 contractor.
From
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=108.2.

So a low voltage contractor and a sign contractor don't need real J-man certified electricians, although they have a certification for those?
No mention of the B contractors at all.
The plot thickens
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Because there is only one exemption ... C10
I am in no way trying to argue with any of you guys just a friendly discussion, I am a near by neighbor up here north :geek:

But the text of the law seems to only apply to the employees of the C-10:
108.2. (b) (1) Certification is required only for those persons who perform work as electricians for contractors licensed as class C-10 electrical contractors under the Contractors’ State License Board Rules and Regulations.
So a general B business can hire whomever they want and pull a electrical permit ?
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
I am in no way trying to argue with any of you guys just a friendly discussion, I am a near by neighbor up here north :geek:

But the text of the law seems to only apply to the employees of the C-10:

So a general B business can hire whomever they want and pull a electrical permit ?
I understand and agree that a Genteral Contractor can file an electrical permit when more that two trades are involved, but please show me the text of the law that permits him or anyone else to perform electrical work without being licensed electricain with the State of California.
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I understand and agree that a Genteral Contractor can file an electrical permit when more that two trades are involved, but please show me the text of the law that permits him or anyone else to perform electrical work without being licensed electricain with the State of California.
Show us where it applies to non C10 contractors. As I said in my previous post the certification program was pushed by a paticualy group of C10 contractors that had an alterior motive. They did not care about other non C10 contractors doing electrical work. They got their certification program but didn't get what they really wanted.
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
Dude...........Post the text not the same link! If you can't the mods need to delete your posts to this thread.

LABOR CODE - LAB

DIVISION 1. DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS [50 - 176]

( Division 1 enacted by Stats. 1937, Ch. 90. )


CHAPTER 4.5. Electrician Certification [108 - 108.5]

( Chapter 4.5 added by Stats. 2012, Ch. 46, Sec. 79. )

108.2.

(a) Persons who perform work as electricians shall become certified pursuant to Section 108. Uncertified persons shall not perform electrical work for which certification is required.
 
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