California contractors licensing, please explain

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
I understand and agree that a Genteral Contractor can file an electrical permit when more that two trades are involved, but please show me the text of the law that permits him or anyone else to perform electrical work without being licensed electricain with the State of California.
108.2. (b) (1) Certification is required only for those persons who perform work as electricians for contractors licensed as class C-10 electrical contractors under the Contractors’ State License Board Rules and Regulations.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
So you could just be a general-B and say you do electrical, and throw in D-63 Construction Cleanup.
There is a good chance your doing some cleanup on every job so there are two trades .

There is 5-6 other 'trades' they classify, all that a C10 also does as one trade that general-b could use to say they are doing more than one trade,
C-47 Solar, C-7 low voltage and or class C-45 sign circuits and HVAC whatever that one is.

Stranger still seems like if your a solar contractor C-47 now are you required to switch to a C10 but they acknowledge the general B exemption:
Thats very odd.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2017 NEC
Unfortunately, at this time the CSLB only enforces violations of the Contractors State License Law is when a consumer files a complaint against a contractor, or it is a "Sting" operation. This is because of limited resources.
Yes, many remodel-construction defects begin with the missing smokes, the tip of the wiring-hazard iceburg.

California construction class R3 buildings can't all be policed by CSLB SWIFT sting projects, but they are regularly molested by unqualified persons, and DIY undeclared-defects that disqualify all insurances.

So a general B business can hire whomever they want and pull a electrical permit ?
Perhaps not beyond Owner-Builder's signing off on indemnity clauses.

More commercially managed properties force building permits, but weather the clueless AHJ's demand C10 electricians for the electrical is unknown to me.
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
Yes, many remodel-construction defects begin with the missing smokes, the tip of the wiring-hazard iceburg.

California construction class R3 buildings can't all be policed by CSLB SWIFT sting projects, but they are regularly molested by unqualified persons, and DIY undeclared-defects that disqualify all insurances.


Perhaps not beyond Owner-Builder's signing off on indemnity clauses.

More commercially managed properties force building permits, but weather the clueless AHJ's demand C10 electricians for the electrical is unknown to me.

Sad ... but true. 90% of resdential work is done without a permit !

And, yes the IBEW lobbied heavely for licensing for electricians in California, and have moved on to the other states.
 
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tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
90% of resdential work is done without a permit !
Here in Oregon you can't get a utility to energize a electrical service without a permit and inspection, is that not the case in CA?
EDIT: or is that the other 10% of the work?
 
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ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2017 NEC
Here in Oregon you can't get a utility to energize a electrical service without a permit and inspection, is that not the case in CA?
EDIT: or is that the other 10% of the work?
Perhaps 90% of existing dwellings are molested by un-insurable hacks.

Perhaps new construction permits & inspection can be enforced, where hacks can't tap into existing meters, pedestals, or well-pumping units.
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
I was wrong on the California General Contractors being required to also have licensed electricians to perform electrical work. After doing additional research, this new law only applies to California C10 Contractors.

Thank you all for your patience and understanding ! ...
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
So you could just be a general-B and say you do electrical, and throw in D-63 Construction Cleanup.
There is a good chance your doing some cleanup on every job so there are two trades .

There is 5-6 other 'trades' they classify, all that a C10 also does as one trade that general-b could use to say they are doing more than one trade,
C-47 Solar, C-7 low voltage and or class C-45 sign circuits and HVAC whatever that one is.

Stranger still seems like if your a solar contractor C-47 now are you required to switch to a C10 but they acknowledge the general B exemption:
Thats very odd.
Solar is C-46, for the record.

The CSLB decision referred to in that article only applied to systems with energy storage. However that decision was also withdrawn because it was made unlawfully without the required public input. They are still trying to push forward with it, notwithstanding that it's just anticompetitive and a solution in search of a problem.
 

norcal

Senior Member
I was always under the impression that a B lic holder that also had a C10 lic, would also need to use certified electricians, or am I mistaken?
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
I was always under the impression that a B lic holder that also had a C10 lic, would also need to use certified electricians, or am I mistaken?
When the IBEW lobbied for this bill, they left out General B contractors. General B contractors are the top classifications in California, so maybe they wanted to reduce opposition. But, it seems unfair to require only C10 contractors to hire licensed electricians. So, at this time if a contractor has both a General B and C10, just pull the permit under the General B. Seems like a "Loop Hole" to me.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
I was always under the impression that a B lic holder that also had a C10 lic, would also need to use certified electricians, or am I mistaken?
Apparently this is true. For work that requires certified electricians, that is. For a smaller contractor who was doing electrical incidentally as part of a larger contract they could get around it by making the connections themselves (the qualifying individual that is).

It seems to me that the law only applies to the actual making of 'connections', but not to running cable and raceways and such. YMMV
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Why even bother being both a general B and a C-10 if a general B can pull an electrical permit?
Seems like as soon as your company has a C-10 then you need certified electricians, regardless of the general-B?
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Why even bother being both a general B and a C-10 if a general B can pull an electrical permit?
Seems like as soon as your company has a C-10 then you need certified electricians, regardless of the general-B?
A B is not supposed to contract for work that only involves electrical. If you also have a C-10 then you can. Actual enforcement of this seems to be up to the permitting jurisdiction and is quite spotty.

Again, you don't need to use certified electricians unless the work is electrical. But yeah, it's dumb that if I'm a B I can have my carpenters do the electrical after they finish the framing and before they do the drywall, but if I get a C-10 because doing service upgrades is also up my alley, then maybe I can't have my carpenters do that previous electrical work anymore.

The stickier situation is having a C-10 and a C-46, or some other similar combination.
 
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tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
A B is not supposed to contract for work that only involves electrical. If you also have a C-10 then you can. Actual enforcement of this seems to be up to the permitting jurisdiction and is quite spotty.

Again, you don't need to use certified electricians unless the work is electrical. But yeah, it's dumb that if I'm a B I can have my carpenters do the electrical after they finish the framing and before they do the drywall, but if I get a C-10 because doing service upgrades is also up my alley, then maybe I can't have my carpenters do that previous electrical work anymore.

The stickier situation is having a C-10 and a C-46, or some other similar combination.
A massive loophole is "D-63 Construction Cleanup" every service change involves demo and construction cleanup, so a general B could be doing two trades and do service upgrades.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
A massive loophole is "D-63 Construction Cleanup" every service change involves demo and construction cleanup, so a general B could be doing two trades and do service upgrades.

The two trades have to be 'unrelated' so unless you have something to clean up besides wire that claim might not serve you very well in a serious CSLB investigation. You're probably better off painting your conduit and claiming painting work. But who knows, I haven't heard of any jurisdictions making trouble for B contractors, and that's probably because a B is allowed to pull a permit for anything if they subcontract the work to an appropriately licensed sub. You only have difficulties if you're some kind of C, say a C-46 doing a service upgrade or subpanel that's 'necessary for solar.'
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
The two trades have to be 'unrelated' so unless you have something to clean up besides wire that claim might not serve you very well in a serious CSLB investigation. You're probably better off painting your conduit and claiming painting work.
OK I get it now.
But who knows, I haven't heard of any jurisdictions making trouble for B contractors, and that's probably because a B is allowed to pull a permit for anything if they subcontract the work to an appropriately licensed sub.
So in that case if General-B Co. gets a plumbing and electrical permit for a kitchen remodel, and subcontracts to a C10, the C10 is never mentioned on the permit? Just electrical permit by General-B Co?
 

mtnelect

HVAC Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor
The “B” General Building Contractor license is the most common contractor license classification in California, with almost 104,000 active licenses
 

Attachments

  • CSLB - Fast Facts, General B.pdf
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tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
The “B” General Building Contractor license is the most common contractor license classification in California, with almost 104,000 active licenses
So I am confused that PDF states:
Solar Energy Systems – A “B” General Building contractor may
contract and self-perform installation of a solar energy system on a
structure because installation of the solar energy system constitutes two
or more unrelated trades pursuant to Title 16, California Code of
Regulations Section 832.62(b)
So why would anyone bother becoming a solar contractor C-46 when being a general B covers it?
Just so you can subcontract solar?
Seems like it would be easier to just be a General-B and do a solar install, that includes a service change and energy storage.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
So in that case if General-B Co. gets a plumbing and electrical permit for a kitchen remodel, and subcontracts to a C10, the C10 is never mentioned on the permit? Just electrical permit by General-B Co?
That's correct. The permit would be for something like residential alteration.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
So I am confused that PDF states:

So why would anyone bother becoming a solar contractor C-46 when being a general B covers it?
Just so you can subcontract solar?
Seems like it would be easier to just be a General-B and do a solar install, that includes a service change and energy storage.
Because if your experience is actually in solar then you would find it a lot easier to answer the questions on the C-46 trade exam with minimal study, instead of having to cram info about framing and foundation requirements you had no idea existed. Also you need 4 years experience to qualify, and if that wasn't working for B contractors then you might not qualify to take the B exam. Not entirely sure about that but definitely could be the case.
 
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