California Contractors what are you doing to comply

[Sierrasparky]

I was wondering what all you CA contractors are doing to comply with Title 24 energy requirements with regards to remodels.

1) your customer wants to change the location of the exisiting Kitchen light and install a Track. no High efficacy luminairs are purchased.

2) the customer wants to install a new light bar in the bath. Once again no High eficacy lamps here either.

at the same time you are requested to install ceiling fans where there are none.

A permit is required, The inspector will notice the lack of High eficacy lights.
What are you guys doing?

 

[rgomes26]

I'm not sure what all the contractors are doing but as an inspector I would:

- Be looking for 50% hi-efficacy lighting in the kitchen unless the lighting isn't changed
- Be looking for hi-eff in bathroom or occ sensor if lighting is changed

If you're not changing the lighting from existing (existing = permitted and approved) then I wouldn't make you upgrade or comply with current.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I would have to agree 100%.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I kind of knew what you inspectors especially Cowboy would say. I really want to know how the contractors out in the field are dealing with this. I would really like to know what someone at one of those Electrical franchises are doing.

 

[Strife]

You can either:
1: Do it as big brother wants it. (good luck getting jobs that way)
2: Recommend a handy man to the customer and charge $50.00 for the recommendation.
3: Go handy man yourself.

I was wondering what all you CA contractors are doing to comply with Title 24 energy requirements with regards to remodels.

1) your customer wants to change the location of the exisiting Kitchen light and install a Track. no High efficacy luminairs are purchased.

2) the customer wants to install a new light bar in the bath. Once again no High eficacy lamps here either.

at the same time you are requested to install ceiling fans where there are none.

A permit is required, The inspector will notice the lack of High eficacy lights.
What are you guys doing?

 

[Sierrasparky]

You can either:
1: Do it as big brother wants it. (good luck getting jobs that way)
2: Recommend a handy man to the customer and charge $50.00 for the recommendation.
3: Go handy man yourself.

Your points exactly.
The intention of making contractors licensed is for Public safety. Where does the government have the right to get involved with the type of light we desire. If the customer is willing to spend the money then it should be their choice and not up to anyone but the homeowner. Is there anyway around this?
What these laws do is make people outlaws.
I should be able to do what the customer asks with-in reason yes?

 

[bradleyelectric]

Your points exactly.
The intention of making contractors licensed is for Public safety. Where does the government have the right to get involved with the type of light we desire. If the customer is willing to spend the money then it should be their choice and not up to anyone but the homeowner. Is there anyway around this?
What these laws do is make people outlaws.
I should be able to do what the customer asks with-in reason yes?

No, Big Government knows whats good for you inspite of yourself. Are you under the impression this is a free country? You cant even pick your own light.

 

[Strife]

You kidding me?
When my customers ask me:"Do I need a permit for this?" I tell them:"You can't pick your NOSE" without a permit.

No, Big Government knows whats good for you inspite of yourself. Are you under the impression this is a free country? You cant even pick your own light.

 

[Sierrasparky]

You kidding me?
When my customers ask me:"Do I need a permit for this?" I tell them:"You can't pick your NOSE" without a permit.

Yea and anyone doing service work and tries to do the legal thing is looking at a fast failing company.

 

[Strife]

But according to some, you're supposed to charge less (being that profit is a dirty word).

Yea and anyone doing service work and tries to do the legal thing is looking at a fast failing company.

 

[Sierrasparky]

But according to some, you're supposed to charge less (being that profit is a dirty word).

All Joking aside what is going on in out in the field. Are you contractors installing a compliant fixture and then changing it out after inspection.

 

[electricguy61]

Some unscrupulous contractors might install the $20 home cheapo fluorescent lights and afci's
(that trip when dimming fluorescent lighting), and replace them after final inspection.

Others might explain to the customer that all work will be done to NEC standards (other then then those listed above), and give them the option of not spending the extra few hundred dollars required by permitting.

But only the unscrupulous ones

 

[cowboyjwc]

But according to some, you're supposed to charge less (being that profit is a dirty word).

I was one of the ones that actually said that. My point was if you're bidding the jobs correctly and everyone is doing the same thing and the customer starts to complain about price, don't just point you finger at "big brother" and blame him for all of you woes.

We're cutting wages, we're cutting permit fees, our city is even thinking about eliminating business tax, we don't even penelize contractors for working without a permit any more. The old days are gone, the days of the $150 p/hr service call have passed, everyone just needs to get used to it.

 

[Ponchik]

I give the customer what the energy code needs and the option of the NON energy compliant fixtures and explain the difference and explain what the inspection department wants. As long as i pass inspection i am off the hook legally.

Honestly and in reality, how much power can we or the utility grid save by installing energy efficient fixtures????

 

[Sierrasparky]

I give the customer what the energy code needs and the option of the NON energy compliant fixtures and explain the difference and explain what the inspection department wants. As long as i pass inspection i am off the hook legally.

Honestly and in reality, how much power can we or the utility grid save by installing energy efficient fixtures????

Are you aware that the contractor installing these light fixtures is responsible for preparing, signing, and recording with the AHJ that He/she complied with the energy code. Do you realize that you are signing this under penalty of perjury!

Cowboy brought this up some time ago!

 

[Ponchik]

Are you aware that the contractor installing these light fixtures is responsible for preparing, signing, and recording with the AHJ that He/she complied with the energy code. Do you realize that you are signing this under penalty of perjury!

Cowboy brought this up some time ago!

Yes i know. once the inspection passes that means i as the contractor have performed my duty according to the book.
Now, I am not responsible if the customer changes the fixtures after inspection.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Yes i know. once the inspection passes that means i as the contractor have performed my duty according to the book.
Now, I am not responsible if the customer changes the fixtures after inspection.

I don't know if you answered the question. Are you saying that you will only install the compliant light fixtures or controls and be on your way. Or are you saying that you install what the customer wants and if the inspector says OK and signs off on the permit you are good to go and Compliant?

 

[Sierrasparky]

Here is a copy of the form that so few are submitting.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I give the customer what the energy code needs and the option of the NON energy compliant fixtures and explain the difference and explain what the inspection department wants. As long as i pass inspection i am off the hook legally.

Honestly and in reality, how much power can we or the utility grid save by installing energy efficient fixtures????

You would be surprised at how much power has been saved. While the rest of the country is on a steady incline of usage, California leveled off several years ago. So while we may not be using less, even with the influx of people we aren't using any more.

You guys all really need to go to one of the energy seminars that are usually put on for free by the local utility. Talk to your local POCO and see if they can arrange one.

 

[Sierrasparky]

You would be surprised at how much power has been saved. While the rest of the country is on a steady incline of usage, California leveled off several years ago. So while we may not be using less, even with the influx of people we aren't using any more.

You guys all really need to go to one of the energy seminars that are usually put on for free by the local utility. Talk to your local POCO and see if they can arrange one.

Cowboy I agree with the savings. The issue is not about saving money. I am a Licensed professional as such I do service work in residential settings. I have to deal with the everyday person who just wants what they like. Thats it!. We as contractors need to be able to please our customers. I don't think that we as contractors should be held to these standards and being a criminal if we violate them. It's not like we are creating a heath and safety hazard! We actually might be creating one. Some people have serious issues with FL and LED. I don't like the light for reading or vision intensive tasks. I think I am getting eye strain since I placed FL in my house.