California - Electrician testing results for 2017

[Sierrasparky]

I came across this last night while on the CA department of Idustrial relations website. The DIR handles all testing for Electrical workers in each level of certificates.
The tests are open book.
I don't know but the results seem low.

 

[petersonra]

I am not real surprised at the low pass rate. Lots of people take these tests who are completely unprepared and then try it again and fail again because they are completely unprepared the second time as well.

 

[Sierrasparky]

This is after at least 8000 hours for a General Journeyman and 4800 for a Residential electrician.
Do you really think that is lack of being prepared or lack of knowledge?

 

[petersonra]

This is after at least 8000 hours for a General Journeyman and 4800 for a Residential electrician.
Do you really think that is lack of being prepared or lack of knowledge?

I think there is a huge difference between being able to do the work and being able to pass the test.

I suspect I could pass the test without too much trouble. I am also pretty sure I could not efficiently do the work.

People on the whole are pretty lazy. Rather than study for the test they might just decide to give it a shot and see what happens.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I think there is a huge difference between being able to do the work and being able to pass the test.

I suspect I could pass the test without too much trouble. I am also pretty sure I could not efficiently do the work.

People on the whole are pretty lazy. Rather than study for the test they might just decide to give it a shot and see what happens.

I've been working with various level of electrical workers for almost 30 years and I know some are lazy. Many were darn good, some I wished I was able to keep on payroll during the recession as they both have their own licenses now. Both passed the first time. I never worked with someone that could not be tested on what was learned that day on the job.

I have no clue as to what goes on beyond my small circle.

An apprentice must move up or leave the trade. There is a time limit on being an apprentice.

I'd be concerned as a employer about the apparent low pass rate as this is a sample of their future employees or lack there of.

 

[petersonra]

I've been working with various level of electrical workers for almost 30 years and I know some are lazy. Many were darn good, some I wished I was able to keep on payroll during the recession as they both have their own licenses now. Both passed the first time. I never worked with someone that could not be tested on what was learned that day on the job.

I have no clue as to what goes on beyond my small circle.

An apprentice must move up or leave the trade. There is a time limit on being an apprentice.

I'd be concerned as a employer about the apparent low pass rate as this is a sample of their future employees or lack there of.

Why is there a time limit on being an apprentice?

Look at it this way from the employee's perspective. Unless there is some real benefit to the employee why should he spend the money on the test review materials and the many hours of studying on his own time?

It could also be that a reflection of the generally bad state of the public schools in CA. Written tests are very hard for people who are barely literate.

 

[texie]

I came across this last night while on the CA department of Idustrial relations website. The DIR handles all testing for Electrical workers in each level of certificates.
The tests are open book.
I don't know but the results seem low.

Sad commentary on the level of training and the quality of people entering our trade. While not many states post stats these publicly, here are Texas scores: https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/elecExamStats2017.htm
In my job I am privy to a number of states stats on exam scores and I can tell you that Texas and California are fairly indicative of the industry.

 

[petersonra]

Sad commentary on the level of training and the quality of people entering our trade. While not many states post stats these publicly, here are Texas scores: https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/elecExamStats2017.htm
In my job I am privy to a number of states stats on exam scores and I can tell you that Texas and California are fairly indicative of the industry.

I read once that about half of CNAs fail either the written or skills exam the first time.

 

[texie]

I read once that about half of CNAs fail either the written or skills exam the first time.

Sadly, this is not unique to just our trade. This is a societal problem.
Oh, I should mentioned earlier that Texas stats used to be much worse. What did they do to improve you ask? Easy, just lower the passing score from 75 to 70.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I read once that about half of CNAs fail either the written or skills exam the first time.

Understand, This is less than half though.
Look at the no show rate in Texas! that is a lot of wasted money.

I think what this tells me is that in the future we can expect more consequences with regards to competency.

 

[petersonra]

Understand, This is less than half though.
Look at the no show rate in Texas! that is a lot of wasted money.

I think what this tells me is that in the future we can expect more consequences with regards to competency.

Not much of what is on the tests probably directly pertains to most electricians daily.

I wonder how many guys that passed the test 5 years ago could pass it today.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Not much of what is on the tests probably directly pertains to most electricians daily.

I wonder how many guys that passed the test 5 years ago could pass it today.

Why would you say that?
Heck it's a open book test 100 questions for General Journeyman
80 questions for Residential .

Oh by the way as far as your question to time limit. I had heard that you could only be an trainee for so many consecutive years. I can't seem to find that today.

 

[Fulthrotl]

at the risk of sounding like a grumpier old man than i usually do,
the numbers don't surprise me.

many of the "electricians" on jobs i visit do not have that state
certification. honestly? less than half.

so, the results aren't as good as that sunny, optimistic summary
indicates.

this week, i was supposed to go hang some lights, and fix some
pole lights. the customer got in a rush, and got two electricians
to come do it instead.

those same electricians tied four #6 THHN onto a 112 kva xfmr
as secondaries, and ran them 225' to feed a 2,500 sq ft office.
lighting, power, and hvac.

the primaries were tied onto the main lugs of a 225 amp 480 panel
with the feeders. also #6.

no OCPD besides the 225 amp main. no X0 ground. secondary in pvc.
no ground there, either.

journeymans license? sure, wilbur. it's right here, somewhere.

i'm just happy i didn't have to bring it up to code. customer would
have spazzed out. i wasn't there, not my problem.

 

[Sierrasparky]

at the risk of sounding like a grumpier old man than i usually do,
the numbers don't surprise me.

many of the "electricians" on jobs i visit do not have that state
certification. honestly? less than half.

so, the results aren't as good as that sunny, optimistic summary
indicates.

this week, i was supposed to go hang some lights, and fix some
pole lights. the customer got in a rush, and got two electricians
to come do it instead.

those same electricians tied four #6 THHN onto a 112 kva xfmr
as secondaries, and ran them 225' to feed a 2,500 sq ft office.
lighting, power, and hvac.

the primaries were tied onto the main lugs of a 225 amp 480 panel
with the feeders. also #6.

no OCPD besides the 225 amp main. no X0 ground. secondary in pvc.
no ground there, either.

journeymans license? sure, wilbur. it's right here, somewhere.

i'm just happy i didn't have to bring it up to code. customer would
have spazzed out. i wasn't there, not my problem.

#6 for real.

How long do you give till they melt spectacularly? :?

I am sure they can't see from their house.
:roll:

 

[tom baker]

WA has a first time pass rate of 55% for journeylevel for those who are not in an apprenticeship, apprenticeship is about 80%
Residential is around 22%, I attribute this to they are working with no on the job training, and take the test with out any prep - even though they are getting (only) 24 hours a year of in classroom training. for the residential, they don't understand they are tested on their scope of work, not what they typically do on the job
In 2023 all journeylevel electricians will have to be in an apprenticeship to take the state electrical test.

 

[Sierrasparky]

WA has a first time pass rate of 55% for journeylevel for those who are not in an apprenticeship, apprenticeship is about 80%
Residential is around 22%, I attribute this to they are working with no on the job training, and take the test with out any prep - even though they are getting (only) 24 hours a year of in classroom training. for the residential, they don't understand they are tested on their scope of work, not what they typically do on the job
In 2023 all journeylevel electricians will have to be in an apprenticeship to take the state electrical test.

That is awesome compared to CA.
I agree with you as to the Residential. I wonder if there is lack of training from their employer or supervisors. It's probably " GET THE JOB DONE, WHY is it taking you so long" ........

 

[solis]

Most employers do not require there employees to know the why's of what they are doing, maybe the foreman has a clue, but most electricians are not required to use the code book on the job. CA's test, and most I have taken (most western states) are code look up tests. They do not require you to do many complicated calc's (except OR and WA). Some questions are referencing obscure code that I would never need. A lot of the younger 20-30's can do the work, bend pipe, pull wire, etc., but are intimated by testing because they aren't in the code book at all.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Most employers do not require there employees to know the why's of what they are doing, maybe the foreman has a clue, but most electricians are not required to use the code book on the job. CA's test, and most I have taken (most western states) are code look up tests. They do not require you to do many complicated calc's (except OR and WA). Some questions are referencing obscure code that I would never need. A lot of the younger 20-30's can do the work, bend pipe, pull wire, etc., but are intimated by testing because they aren't in the code book at all.

Ok that is apparent, Then why take the exam then? The second pass rates are not that impressive either.

That is why some of these workers can't troubleshoot. Why they can only do the bare basics. There is no applied knowledge.

 

[tortuga]

I came across this last night while on the CA department of Idustrial relations website. The DIR handles all testing for Electrical workers in each level of certificates.
The tests are open book.
I don't know but the results seem low.

Well the low voltage guys are doing the best.
What is a fire life safety tech is there an apprenticeship for that ?
And wow state licensed lighting techs. I have never seen that before...