California Journeyman Certification

[e57]

There's six months left to go on this law, before it comes into effect. It doesn't appear that very many people know it exists. Or will it be postponed again? Anyone heard much about it lately?

http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ECU_stats.htm

[ June 30, 2004, 04:12 AM: Message edited by: e57 ]

 

[sdbob]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

There is no requirement to be certified by the State of California. AB 931 provides a way for electricians to voluntarily prove they can pass a fairly simple written test. http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/ch2sb4.html


http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/290_0.html
?290.0. General
Any individual may apply for certification showing that the individual possesses the skill, knowledge and training


It also provides a way for interested organizations to get the home addresses of every electrician that took the test. :roll:

http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/295_0.html
?295.0. Publication of Names; Responsibility To Provide a Current Address.
(a) Division of Apprenticeship Standards shall publish, either electronically or in print, a current list of electricians who are certified and copies of this list shall be available to the public upon request.
(b) Applicants and certified electricians shall be responsible for notifying DAS of changes in mailing address.

 

[e57]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

Sounds pretty required... I think you may have confused who can apply, with who must...

All employees of C-10 contractors (with the exception of apprentices enrolled in registered apprenticeship programs) must be certified by January 1, 2005.

Ref: http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ECU_FAQ.htm

3099.2. (a) (1) Persons who perform work as electricians shall
become certified pursuant to Section 3099 by January 1, 2005. After
January 1, 2005, uncertified persons may not perform electrical work
for which certification is required.

REF: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=03001-04000&file=3070-3099.5


More info...

http://www.ibewnecaforcertification.org/faqs.htm


http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/01-02/bill/asm/ab_1051-1100/ab_1087_bill_20020529_chaptered.html

[ June 30, 2004, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: e57 ]

 

[sdbob]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

Wow, that, an eye-opener. I read the bill here...

http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/ch2sb4.html

and found no [requirement] for certification. In fact, in the enforcement section the only infraction is:

Any person who displays a certificate, or otherwise claims to be certified, who is not certified shall be prohibited from taking the test for certification for a period of five (5) years.

There's also a provision for a 2 year extension if a shortage of electricians is created. With only 4,794 passed tests to date, there's gonna be a shortage.

I need to look into this further. It's odd the way the bill is worded vs how the labor law is worded. I does sound as though it's required.

It looks like I have some guys to get certified.

The only part of this bill I don't like is the fact that our home addresses will now be public information. Why do you think that's in there?

 

[sdbob]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

I'm sending in my application today.

Interesting that no supporting documentation is required to back up 8000 hours experience that you must have to take the test. Basically, anyone can certify under penalty of perjury that they have worked 8000 as an electrician, pass an open book test, and become a "Journeyman". On my State Contractor's exam application affidavits from past employers or co-workers had to back up my experience claims. I'm very dissapointed to not see any third-party verification required for this certification.

There are also no enforcement or penalty for non-compliance guidelines set up.

This effort to certify electricians in this state seems to be ill-concieved at best.

One of the guys that works with me already had his application to take the test and we scheduled his exam online today in San Diego. The next available test date as of a few minutes ago in San Diego is 8-8-04.

[ June 30, 2004, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: sdbob ]

 

[sandsnow]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

I know someone who was on the committee who wrote the questions. The test is designed for people who have just completed an apprenticeship. I've taken it, it's not that hard.
The real benefit of the program will be the 32 hours of continuing education required. This will educate our electricians which is really needed in some cases.
Since it's the state that's running it, it is easy to be cynical about the program in light of their past history. Let's give it a chance and see what happens, then we can compliment or condemn them.

 

[e57]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

I'll confess! I knew that a lot of people didn't know about this, and the reason I brought it up....

I've been following this for some time... and it seems, from the street level that word has not gotten out.

No letter from anyone, or other announcement... Like the CSLB!

Now, Larry... I have only come across two Inspectors, including you, who know of this law.

My question to all whom I've talked about it with is:

How do you think this will this be enforced?

Just looking for your opinion on that...

I too have taken the test, but felt it might be a little much for some of the four year guys.

Some of the people who took this in the first round, (Before May 2002) may have taken a different set. The one I took was not a no brainer, and I don't consider myself a code guru, or void of code savy. But my Contractor License test was a breeze in comparison.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

My OPINION,
The inspectors and building officials will resist enforcing this because of the extra man hours to be spent on a job checking cards and then writing up some kind of violation. There will be lots of people not certified on Jan. 1. I doubt the state will be providing funding to the AHJ's for this enforcement(we are already in debt). Additional personel would need to be hired if the AHJ would have to enforce it. Somebody has to fund that.
I wouldn't advise putting off getting certified, but come Jan. 1 and your not, I wouldn't be too worried about not working UNLESS it is your companies policy.
People working on public works jobs on the other hand better get certified. The labor compliance program will more than likely check for certification. I'm not involved directly with those jobs, so I don't have first hand knowledge. LCP though is what enforces prevailing wage on schools and such jobs.
The notification of this program has been pathetic. One guy had not heard about it until 6 months ago.
I'm suprised you think the test would be a little much for a four year person. I think it's definitley doable for them with some studying. The 29 questions on other than code were easy, that leaves 41 code questions to get right for a 70%. I could be wrong though, It's hard to remember what I knew when I had just been in the trade four years.
Even basic code knowledge is lacking in too many electricians I encounter, which is what I hope this program will change.
I hope this wasn't too rambling for you

 

[e57]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

Sandsnow-

The General Jouneyman test was 100 questions, that I took, and used the whole 4 hours to take it. About 20 were ohms law, kirchoff's law AC/DC thereory, series and parallel. That type of thing. Then 8-10 code questions in several catagories. The thing was that, (the reason four year guys might have a problem) the questions were not every day items. Some had multiple code refferances, and some were challenging for a fifteen year man like myself. I got an 87 on it! So far there is a 10% fail rate, so I assume I didn't do that much below average...

Now if you took it back in '99 - 01, you may have taken a differant test. I've heard about this before. From what I understand, their was an initial round of testing see where it all stood. Down in LA the test like 300+ people. Now I think that curriculum of questions has changed. As the Company subbed out to do it now, (Experior) does testing for all kinds of things across the country. The developed their test material from thier other testing, in other states.

I've heard rumors about denial of workmans comp, through the insurance companies as a way of enforcement...... From your opinion, I'm glad that all my guys aren't going to line up with thier card for every inspection, that would be just too out there.......

 

[chris68]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

I am in Denver, Colorado where I tested in November and earned a journeyman's license. I have been well aware that California's grandfather period is about to end...thinking about taking the CA test. Work is slow in Colorado licensed electricians aren't in demad. This represents an opportunity to travel. If you guys are planning on people who perform electric work to become certified as electricians by a test, you might be in for a suprise.

As an electrician, I view this as a means to protect my livleyhood and protect consumers.

 

[scott657]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

If you can use the index you can pass the test

 

[spider2]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

I agree with Scott. If you can figure out the subject of the question and locate it in the index the answer was usually there word for word in the code book. I took the general journeyman test in 3 hours about a week ago and scored pretty darn good. Know the tools of the trade and some theory and the rest is in the code book. Also I hope someone does enforce this thing because I am cartified and if no one else around can work, I can!

 

[noxx]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

Originally posted by scott657:
If you can use the index you can pass the test

I couldn't agree more.

I passed the test in early '04 with a 98 score, and it appalled me how easy it was. If you can navigate the NEC, you could pass this "certification" without having ever spliced a wire in your life.

Very disappointed not only with the average quality of work in CA, but with this lackluster attempt exclude unqualified persons.

[ August 18, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: noxx ]

 

[fyretek]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

Howdy fellers, i know this reply is a bit late but to answer the uestion about this test not being enforced................first off it likely wont be enforced in the field...why you ask??? well because the contractor who bid and won the job has to prove in the bid spec's that he has employee's that are certified. second, yes the test is extreamly easy. third if you dont want to take it then dont. you - more then likely will not be allowed to bid(if your a contractor) or work on a project if your not. sooo if you dont get certified expect to stay in the low end of the pool. haha if you know what i mean.

 

[612278]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

I know late reply. But here in California where lawyers rule, and for some reason you have to go to court, I can here it now " your not a state registered journey electrician?" Come on guys I think this will help us all union or not.
Steve

 

[aaatraker]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

could someone please tell me which yr of the code they are using for the test.

in comparing this test with the ca contractors test that i took, i see the following:

contractors test 4 hours closed book
100 questions business
125 questions trade

journeymans test 4 hours open book
100 questions

 

[612278]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

aaatraker-

The test is based on the 1999 nec. The test is as follows.
General journeyman electrician=4 hrs 100 questions
residential journey electrician=3 hrs 75 questions
70% required to pass, and register ASAP it takes at least 6 weeks to get date to test.

STEVE

 

[aaatraker]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

What are you allowed to take in as reference material? Looseleaf code book with tabs?
Ugly's reference book ?
Calculator?


Thanks
Kurt

 

[roger]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

I don't know about Cal, but as far as Contractors licensing in N.C., you can not take anything in.

You are given a code book, calculator, scratch paper, and pencil, you leave all of these items when you are done.

Roger

[ October 02, 2004, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[612278]

Re: California Journeyman Certification

aaatracker-

The code book is supplied by test facility, the only thing you can bring is calculator. They wont even let you bring in cell phone while testing.

STEVE