Cameras are great...

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1793

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
I have started working for a new customer. While working at another location I was asked if I would be interested in taking over where another electrician had started a job and then was fired. So far it has been pretty routine.

Today I was asked to look at the new panel that was installed outside for the new Hot Tub to be purchased. The HO wanted me see if it was ready to be hooked-up. The electrician was told that the new Hot Tub needed a 60 amp feed.

I thought I would share with everyone what I found when I finally get the cover opened. The following photos show the kind of work, I think, that got them fired.

Added new photo
 
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I looked at that first pic real quick and said:
So what...NM in conduit ~ THEN it dawned on me...
- NM is probably outside at that point
- Nice hole LOL

On the plus side, the PVC is "arranged to drain"....LMAO.
 
1793 said:
I thought I would share with everyone what I found when I finally get the cover opened. The following photos show the kind of work, I think, that got them fired.
Click to expand...

It's a shame, but this is not uncommon, and in many cases the homeowner doesn't have a clue of the danger!
 
celtic said:
I looked at that first pic real quick and said:
So what...NM in conduit ~ THEN it dawned on me...
- NM is probably outside at that point
- Nice hole LOL

On the plus side, the PVC is "arranged to drain"....LMAO.
Click to expand...


Last I knew orange RX was only 10 AWG, the hot tub needed to be 60 AMPS...
 
celtic said:
I looked at that first pic real quick and said:
So what...NM in conduit ~ THEN it dawned on me...
- NM is probably outside at that point
- Nice hole LOL

On the plus side, the PVC is "arranged to drain"....LMAO.
Click to expand...

The real problem is that it's a 10-3 pulled for a 60 amp circuit!

If a 4 circuit subpanel (spa panel) with a 50 or 60 amp GFCI breaker were installed, you can run romex to the panel. The only part that needs an insulated ground is the branch circuit to the spa. I know this is not the intent of the code, but it passes. We normally try to keep the rx in the home's wall until it enters the back of the spa panel, but on occasion, we sleeve the rx with pvc to enter the spa panel.
 
Come on...a 10/3 NM is good for at leats 90 amps ...3x30=90A ...let's go hot tubing!

OK...NM is not the thing I do most :D ...that'd be a black cable @60A?
 
romexking said:
The real problem is that it's a 10-3 pulled for a 60 amp circuit!

If a 4 circuit subpanel (spa panel) with a 50 or 60 amp GFCI breaker were installed, you can run romex to the panel. The only part that needs an insulated ground is the branch circuit to the spa. I know this is not the intent of the code, but it passes. We normally try to keep the rx in the home's wall until it enters the back of the spa panel, but on occasion, we sleeve the rx with pvc to enter the spa panel.
Click to expand...

Read NEC 2005. 680.25 and 680.25 (A) Pay attention to FEEDERS and SERVICE EQUIPMENT. NO romex allowed.
 
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that's going to take a hell of a lot of reducing washers. this looks like the work of a guy i used to work with. he said 12-2 was good for any amperage within 600v. :D
 
Around where I live about half the time the pool companys do not bother to get a permit, nor hire an electrical contractor to do the wiring. Thats cause they all have a guy well call "Lefty" for fun. "We don't need an electrician, we got our own guy Lefty and he knows how to do it right. So about half the pools in my state have no bonding grid, and the hot tubs all look about pretty similar to the photo's Norb sent us to look at. And worse.
 
macmikeman said:
Around where I live about half the time the pool companys do not bother to get a permit, nor hire an electrical contractor to do the wiring. Thats cause they all have a guy well call "Lefty" for fun. "We don't need an electrician, we got our own guy Lefty and he knows how to do it right. So about half the pools in my state have no bonding grid, and the hot tubs all look about pretty similar to the photo's Norb sent us to look at. And worse.
Click to expand...


So, how are homeowners getting insurance on these pools without permits?
 
stickboy1375 said:
So, how are homeowners getting insurance on these pools without permits?
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Why bother with pesky details?

Fill the pool, fire up the grill, ice the beverages...invite the neighbors.
 
Don't really know, but I'd guess its all aftermarket, meaning they had the homeowners insurance before the pool went in. I think I should start taking pictures of all the pumps I run across with an empty bonding lug attached and post them for you folks to amaze at. I have a source who is super good at concrete restoral work, and knows exactly what needs doing to get a proper bonding grid in after the fact of cement, but I try to generally avoid those types of jobs whenever and wherever I can.
 
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