Can I do this

[Jerseydaze]

Does anyone see why I can Not do this.I want to add one 8' strip of base board 240v I want to use the ac air handler circuit its 15 amp and is only used for ac can I do this by code?

 

[SiddMartin]

Only if the circuit meets the requirment of the load. Is the 15 A ckt large enough for the contin. load of the heater?

also, watch for outlets above the new heater location, that would be a violation of the code that says you have to follow the manufact. instructions (which states that you can not have an outlet above the heater)

assuming this is not a hyro baseboard heater

 

[480sparky]

What do you mean by 'use the ac air handler circiut"? Does this mean you have a dedicated AC circuit?

If so, and both loads would be too large for the circuit, install a DPDT switch to toggle between the two. Then there's no chance both loads can be on at the same time.

 

[AE-29]

#1) are you certain you have 240v at the air handler #2)the heater will more than likely draw more than or equal to the 15amp rating of the a/c, most toaster draw about 8-12 amps much less a base heater. Without finding the code that says the heater should be on it's own protected ckt, I'd say no don't do it. To me it's wrong because new load calculations need to be considered.

 

[charlie]

. . . Is the 15 A ckt large enough for the contin. load of the heater? . .

Assuming normal density, it will be a 2 kW heater and at 240 volts, that is only a bit over 8 amperes. Add the required 25% for continuous load and you are shy of 11 amperes . . . no problem. :smile:

 

[Jerseydaze]

yes its dedicated 240v circuit to air handler base board is 2000 watts

 

[charlie]

. . . install a DPDT switch to toggle between the two. Then there's no chance both loads can be on at the same time.

Agree, I woud think that would just be a good install. :smile:

 

[Buck Parrish]

, install a DPDT switch to toggle between the two. Then there's no chance both loads can be on at the same time.

I have done this, but I didn't know that it was code compliant.

The switch is about $45.00

 

[Jerseydaze]

what about this the Ac system is fed by a 40 amp sub panel if I add a circuit out of that panel for the heat is it up to code because its heat and ac .If you ran Ac and baseboard you would over load the sub panel

 

[goldstar]

I think the isolation switch is the right idea. You have to make this a fool-proof installation so that the average homeowner can't run both the A/C and the heat at the same time. As far as being code compliant a lot depends on how and where you install the switch and make the transition from A/C to heat.

With respect to the NEC and receptacles over the BB heater, does the NEC distinguish between the BB heating unit having an electric or hydronic element ?

 

[charlie]

. . . The switch is about $45.00

I know things have changed a bit since I hung up my tool belt in 1979 but a DPDT snap switch can't be that expensive . . . can it? :-?

 

[charlie]

. . . With respect to the NEC and receptacles over the BB heater, does the NEC distinguish between the BB heating unit having an electric or hydronic element ?

From 210.52, "Permanently installed electric baseboard heaters equipped with factory-installed receptacle outlets or outlets provided as a separate assembly by the manufacturer shall be permitted as the required outlet or outlets for the wall space utilized by such permanently installed heaters. Such receptacle outlets shall not be connected to the heater circuits.

FPN: Listed baseboard heaters include instructions that may not permit their installation below receptacle outlets."

​

The NEC does not require receptacles to be installed away from baseboard electric heaters. However, the manufacturer's instruction probably does. The normal baseboard heater is 250 watts per foot and is not permitted to be installed below receptacles. Most (all?) of manufacturers instructions of the low density permit the installation under receptacle outlets. 110.3(B) must be followed as indicated in the FPN. :smile:

 

[cadpoint]

what about this the Ac system is fed by a 40 amp sub panel if I add a circuit out of that panel for the heat is it up to code because its heat and ac .If you ran Ac and baseboard you would over load the sub panel

It's been shown already that you heater is to run shy or 11 amp per Charlie (Globe)!

Why is it wrong to make the install of a 40 amp sub panel, not for the amperage of both devices, but now both could be on, I like the is DPDT application.

Frankly I have to go search that on-line, cause I couldn't remember "how to" I think 480 nailed it as other agreeded ... JMO

 

[Buck Parrish]

I know things have changed a bit since I hung up my tool belt in 1979 but a DPDT snap switch can't be that expensive . . . can it? :-?

Yes $45.00 , or their abouts. It's ussually rated for 30 amps.

2" rigid is $65.00 .

A tandem 2 pole and 2 single pole all in one Siemens breaker is $38.00

 

[goldstar]

Thank you Charlie for clearing that up.

 

[kapakahi]

The NEC does not specify a prohibition of installating an electric baseboard under a receptacle. The UL will not give their approval unless there is an inclusion in the manufacturer's installation instructions recommending not to insastall under a receptacle. Now you refer back to 110.3(B): "Installation and Use Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling."

Electric baseboard heaters get much hotter than their hydronic counterparts so you don't have that problem. In my inspections, whenever I come upon an installation of an electric baseboard heater under a receptacle I ask for a copy of the manufacturer's installation instructions. When I find it stated there clearly I show the electrician and they are surprised but happy to learn something. They are actually saved from a tremendous liability by having to alter the receptacles or the heater to be in compliance. Only it is better to know before hand and not have to do the work twice.

I am waiting for the day when a manufacturer makes a heater that can be installated under a receptacle.

There is another issue. UL is not the only testing and listing agency. I can imagine that another agency would list the unit but not restrict its use, different from the UL and thereby the installation would be in compliance.