Can lights

guschash

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
I need to put in six can lights in a kitchen . What is best way to do this? Cut out drywall to each light and drill through joists or use a long drill bit in the first hole and drill through joists. Never use the long bit and heard horror stories about doing it.
 

Gaffen99

Senior Member
Location
new jersey
Explain to the homeowner that there might be some ceiling damage and you can get them a price to repair if necessary. I usually drill a hole with a larger bit in the first joist to give yourself some play with the long bit. Try and direct it and good luck. Don't try to be a miracle worker, we're just electricians. :)
 

A/A Fuel GTX

Senior Member
Location
WI & AZ
This scenario is always scary due to unknown obstacles like wires, plumbing pipes and heat runs. I'm assuming there is a second floor above the kitchen preventing you from getting into attic space?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I try and space the can so that there are two joist to drill thru. If the 2 cans are at the far end of a joist then you only need to drill 2 joist and fish between. I tend to drill my holes closer to the top of the joist simply because wires are not generally there.

I would check thoroughly that there aren't back to back bathrooms upstairs as the plumbing will undoubtedly screw things up for you.

I did a huge living room with bedrooms above and I had to use the long bit. I felt pretty comfortable as I was pretty certain there were any wires in the ceiling.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
You never mentioned what's on top, a complete review of other possible HVAC runs, and
other piping might need to be considered. Ex. most modern house use rafters for branch runs, while old houses are feed from the bottom, if with crawl space. So ID'n everything in a this space and is IMO a wise application.

Buy a stud finder, while the client has some thought of the install, you don't want to
chew up timber to get it on the spot.

If your so inclinded; simple graph paper (which will help creat a scale) and stud
lay-out imposed with clear this up. You can also use opaque wrapping paper as an
over layer to light patten to a scaled kitchen. BTW you can have multi sheets layed
over each other. I bought onion paper (roll) which does the same thing, but it's pricie.
Blue painters tape is also a handy applicator.
 
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jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Is there a chance that the ceiling is strapped with 1X3 boards perpendicular to and under the joists? That's how most houses around here are. It allows you to fish the wire between the joists and drywall.
 

pitkas

Member
Location
Alaska
What I have done in the past was tell the homeowner it is cheaper for them to pull back the carpet on the second floor and remove the subfloor over where they want the lights. When they completed the demo I would wire up the lights. I would not recommend blind drilling from what I have seen.
 

A/A Fuel GTX

Senior Member
Location
WI & AZ
What I have done in the past was tell the homeowner it is cheaper for them to pull back the carpet on the second floor and remove the subfloor over where they want the lights. When they completed the demo I would wire up the lights. I would not recommend blind drilling from what I have seen.
I like the concept but I think that would be next to impossible to sell a customer on that much added expense when all they wanted was some recessed cans installed.
 

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
IMO, pulling up carpet and sub flooring is a huge hassle and expense compared to patching a few holes.

I use my trusty 4 3/8" hole saw with dust shield and drill directly on the joists. I then use an oscillating tool to make a small notch (1/2" wide, 1/4" deep) for the romex. I feed the romex thru and then screw the 4 3/8" puck back onto the joist.

I used to put the first coat of mud on, I would use 5 minute fast setting mixable powder since it's strong. But now I just give them the business card of a good local taper and let them decide if they want a pro to patch it or do it themselves.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
iwire What is the reasoning for this strapping ? Around here the sheetrock would be attached directly to the bottom of the joist.
I really do not know. Until I got on the forums I assumed that was done everywhere but I learned it seems to be a fairly local thing.

My own home is a 1925 or earlier home with plaster and lath but it still has a strapped ceiling under it all.

We even see metal strapping (we call it 'hat channel') in metal framing.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
iwire What is the reasoning for this strapping ? Around here the sheetrock would be attached directly to the bottom of the joist.
I only see that "strapping" in instances where the spacing between ceiling joists is too far for practical support of the finished ceiling. More common if the roof is going to be sheet metal - they will put roof trusses at 4 feet on center as it is a lighter roof then asphalt shingles and doesn't need as many trusses to be able to support the roof. There is "strapping" under the sheet metal roof as well, but overall takes less lumber (or at least lower grade lumber) then it takes to add more trusses.
 

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Around here strapping is only used when remodeling and the joists are really out of wack.


That, and also to install those 12" square cardboard tiles you find in basements :thumbsdown:
 

cpinetree

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
iwire What is the reasoning for this strapping ? Around here the sheetrock would be attached directly to the bottom of the joist.
Had one contractor we did work for that did that, he would shoot a laser to level the ceiling and the shim as needed to get a perfectly level ceiling. Very professional :), and very time consuming.
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
iwire What is the reasoning for this strapping ? Around here the sheetrock would be attached directly to the bottom of the joist.
Just guessing (At best I'm a structural mediocre - definitely not expert)
The strapping is to prevent the joists from failing by turning over. Often one sees x-bracing instead.

ice
 

1793

Senior Member
I really do not know. Until I got on the forums I assumed that was done everywhere but I learned it seems to be a fairly local thing.

My own home is a 1925 or earlier home with plaster and lath but it still has a strapped ceiling under it all.

We even see metal strapping (we call it 'hat channel') in metal framing.
On the big residential LED Kitchen job I did they used the metal "hat" channel as a means of sound insulation for the floor above. Not sure how well it worked/works but that was the reason for adding it.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
Just guessing (At best I'm a structural mediocre - definitely not expert)
The strapping is to prevent the joists from failing by turning over. Often one sees x-bracing instead.

ice
X bracing between the joist is often found in homes from the 1930's to 1950's. Engineered joist or 2 X 8, 2 X 10 is what you will find today.
 
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