Can "outsiders" get a Masters in Washington state?

[ZZDoug]

Sorry for the strange title, but you will see what I mean in a moment.....
Was filling out the application for the Washington state masters exam and ran into a problem. The requirements say you must have held a journeymans license for (at least) 4 years, and since I have been a master electrician for 20 years and of course a journeyman much longer (all in other states), I figured no problem.
But something about the wording bothered me so I called the license dept in Washington. The lady there said I didn't qualify because you must hold a journeyman license 4 years IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON. In other words, she said it doesn't matter if you hold any license in any other state for any length of time - only a Washington state journeyman license for 4 years will qualify you for the Washington masters. Sounds as if no outsiders need apply.
This doesn't seem right as well as being odd, I have never heard of this from any other state. However, I did get it direct from the source ...... Anyone know anything about this? Say it aint so!

 

[petersonra]

It would not surprise me any if it was so.

 

[charlie b]

I think this is how it works, but I might have it wrong. See this site for the actual rules:
http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Electrical/LawRulePol/LawsRules/default.asp


Firse, let's be clear about terms. In Washington, the phrase "Master Electrician Certification of Competency" is a combination of the "Journeyman Electrician Certification of Competency" and the "Electrical Administrator Certification." You can perform work in the electrical trade as a journeyman, and you can get a journeyman certification based on work performed in another jurisdiction. But to get the Masters, I think you need to have the journeyman certificate in Washington for four years, and you need to take the Master's exam.

 

[petersonra]

I think this is how it works, but I might have it wrong. See this site for the actual rules:
http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Electrical/LawRulePol/LawsRules/default.asp


Firse, let's be clear about terms. In Washington, the phrase "Master Electrician Certification of Competency" is a combination of the "Journeyman Electrician Certification of Competency" and the "Electrical Administrator Certification." You can perform work in the electrical trade as a journeyman, and you can get a journeyman certification based on work performed in another jurisdiction. But to get the Masters, I think you need to have the journeyman certificate in Washington for four years, and you need to take the Master's exam.

So you can go get a JM card for WA state, do no work in WA state for 4 years, than take the master's test and get your master's license?

 

[charlie b]

No, Bob. You can get a journeyman certificate based on experience elsewhere, then work for four years under that certificate, and then take the Masters exam. I cannot tell you what a Master is allowed to do that a Journeyman is not allowed to do. For my part, I hold an Electrical Administrator Certificate and an (inactive) Electrician Trainee Certificate. I have not yet logged any working hours as an Electrician Trainee, so I still have 8000 hours to go, before I could take the Journeyman Exam. :smile:

 

[petersonra]

No, Bob. You can get a journeyman certificate based on experience elsewhere, then work for four years under that certificate, and then take the Masters exam. I cannot tell you what a Master is allowed to do that a Journeyman is not allowed to do. For my part, I hold an Electrical Administrator Certificate and an (inactive) Electrician Trainee Certificate. I have not yet logged any working hours as an Electrician Trainee, so I still have 8000 hours to go, before I could take the Journeyman Exam. :smile:

So on top of holding the JM card for four years there is a minimum number of hours required during that four years?

 

[charlie b]

For details, follow the link in my post #3.

 

[ZZDoug]

Ok, I looked up the Washington statutes (http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Rules/files/electrical/500-039-111.pdf) and maybe it IS so.

Under RCW 19.28.191(1)(d) it states;
"To be eligible to take the examination for a master journeyman electrician certificate you must have held a valid journeyman electrician certificate for four (4) years."

And there are definitions as follows;
RCW 19.28.006 (11) - ""Journeyman electrician" means a person who has been issued a journeyman electrician certificate of competency by the department."

And then RCW 19.28.006 (5) - ""Department" means the department of labor and industries."


Charlie, I see nothing that indicates you have to actually perform work there, only says you must hold the license for that time.
Still, it seems odd they would have a rule like this. Perhaps its to protect their residents from out of state folks coming in and taking work. But very discriminatory toward anyone moving there.

 

[westernexplorer]

Not at all discriminatory. Every State has the right to set its own rules and conditions with regard to licensing. I think that Florida and many Southern states are very discrimatory, but that is there system. The Western United States are the most open and easiest place obtain an electrical license. And yes, I once held a license in Florida. The fact that you have to beg your future competition (YOUR EMPLOYER) for a letter, which they are not by law required to write for you to prove your expeience to sit for a license exam, is a sham.....If you don't like our rules in Washington State, go somewhere else to work. At least out here we don't have to beg our employers for letters.

Washington State Master Electrician

 

[MarkWhite]

Ok, I looked up the Washington statutes (http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Rules/files/electrical/500-039-111.pdf) and maybe it IS so.

Under RCW 19.28.191(1)(d) it states;
"To be eligible to take the examination for a master journeyman electrician certificate you must have held a valid journeyman electrician certificate for four (4) years."

And there are definitions as follows;
RCW 19.28.006 (11) - ""Journeyman electrician" means a person who has been issued a journeyman electrician certificate of competency by the department."

And then RCW 19.28.006 (5) - ""Department" means the department of labor and industries."


Charlie, I see nothing that indicates you have to actually perform work there, only says you must hold the license for that time.
Still, it seems odd they would have a rule like this. Perhaps its to protect their residents from out of state folks coming in and taking work. But very discriminatory toward anyone moving there.

The Masters Certificate for the State of Washington is basically a combination of the Administrator's Certificate and the Journeyman's Certificate.

Neither requires residency to obtain. I see no discrimination based upon residency.

Not sure if you are intending to open a company in Washington or are merely collecting certificates, but you can sit the Administrator's exam without holding the Journeyman's Certificate.
If you hold a Journeyman's certificate in a reciprocal state you can apply for one in WA by following the rules stated in the link to the department's website.

FYI : Washington code requires that the Administrator/Master electrician for a contractor be an active supervisory employee of the company. Absentee Administrators recieve citations from the department.

Mark

 

[tom baker]

In WA State, an adminstrator is the person who is responsible for compliance with the electrcal laws and rules, he/she does not have to be an electrican.
To be an journeyman, it requires 4 years experience, and a test
To test for a master, it requires 4 years as an adminstrator, plus a test.
The advantage of a master electrician is you only hold one certificate and don't have to renew journeyman and adminstrator.
The requirements for qualifying for the master electrician are in the RCW and all the answers above are from the WAC.
The master electrican is a harder adminstrators exam.

Tom
WA Master Electrician and Pump/Irrigation Plumber.