Can someone explain the difference between California vs rest of US versions of luminaires?

[Flicker Index]

https://www.homedepot.com/compare?item1=304533541&item2=310810334

One has -CA in the model name. Some of these things have "not for sale in California" printed on the box.
I can't spot any discernable difference, but why are they offered in TWO versions instead of just harmonizing it to CA legal version?

 

[augie47]

Even better

Can someone explain the difference between California vs rest of US

 

[fishin' electrician]

Simple, it's either much easier to contract cancer and/or cause detrimental climate change in CA or the rest of earth is in denial.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Title 20?

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs): State-Regulated Lamps

 

[James L]

Title 20?

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs): State-Regulated Lamps

Title 24?

 

[wwhitney]

I believe in this case the only difference between the two SKUs is that the CA version does not come with the little screw base pigtail. At one point in California the energy code stated that when a luminaire is required to be "high efficacy" it can not use a screw base for the lamp, to prevent the easy substitution of an incandescent. I think that requirement may be gone now, in which case the differing SKUs are just an artifact.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[ramsy]

..but why are they offered in TWO versions instead of just harmonizing it to CA legal version?

State adopted regulations can't force retailers to stock 2 versions of each item.

SKU's that comply with unique State requirements can be internet order only, while existing stock remains on store shelves. With some exceptions for retailers tying to stock items not carried by others.

The only way States can enforce their unique codes is thru utility rebate programs, or local permit planners that have resources to certify Energy-Code compliance during inspections. Many defunded local AHJ's must punt this elsewhere, perhaps to State departments.

Our illustrious forum member "Fulthrotl" put himself thru school to specialize in certifying CA Title-24 lighting installations. Don't know how much work he's getting from this, but I've had to refer a few clients his way.

 

[Flicker Index]

I'm scratching my head. This is just too much.

LED lamps produced after July 1, 2019 and are are required to meet the compliance efficacy score of 297. The score is determined by LpW + 2.3*(CRI) ≥ 297. All HALO LED retrofit products are available for customers selling into California that require T20 compliant versions. HALO can provide product that has the improved efficacy or product that was produced before the July 1, 2019 date.

https://www.cooperlighting.com/content/dam/cooper-lighting/brands/halo/brochures/halo-t20-bro.pdf

I mean, so why not just offer all new production in improved efficacy instead of making CA vs rest of state SKUs? Anything produced before 7/1/19 is off the hooks anyways.

 

[gadfly56]

I'm scratching my head. This is just too much.

https://www.cooperlighting.com/content/dam/cooper-lighting/brands/halo/brochures/halo-t20-bro.pdf

I mean, so why not just offer all new production in improved efficacy instead of making CA vs rest of state SKUs? Anything produced before 7/1/19 is off the hooks anyways.

I don't think they meant that they stocked away a warehouse full of pre-2019 product, but that that product is still available. If my surmise is correct, there must be some tradeoff that makes it worthwhile for them to stock both products.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I believe in this case the only difference between the two SKUs is that the CA version does not come with the little screw base pigtail. At one point in California the energy code stated that when a luminaire is required to be "high efficacy" it can not use a screw base for the lamp, to prevent the easy substitution of an incandescent. I think that requirement may be gone now, in which case the differing SKUs are just an artifact.

Cheers, Wayne

i don't think the requirement is gone yet.
i just bought two wall sconces for the sides of my garage front,
and they have a plain old standard size screw lampholder.

ordered off the manufacturers website. they sell them in
calif. as well.

and a 100 watt max. luminare counts for 100 watts on your
lighting calcs. doesn't matter if i have a 5 watt LED lamp in there.

and that is why generic fixtures are not specified in california.
there is no way an electrical engineer can make the watts per sq.
requirements with tungsten lighting.

title 24 requires title 20 listed devices to be used. fixtures,
prescriptive lighting controls, etc.

title 24 part 6 has been in the calif. building code for five years.
so has third party compliance certification.

before y'all holler it's BS, think of all the things that started in CA
and then moved to your state. you are not out of this yet.

You are welcome.

PS:
it's not all skittles and beer here. i frequently throw a shotgun in
the trunk of the car, depending on where i am working.

and now, i wear a 3M PAPR everywhere. in effect, we have no
healthcare in california at the current time, as we have no beds
in the hospitals. and the medical gas supplies in hospitals are
freezing up from condensation due to sustained patient loads.

i was counting the number of ambulance sirens per hour as a
way of gauging how much fun everyone was having. if you go
out and stand in the front yard, now, there is never a time where
an ambulance siren is not within earshot. our healthcare is
burning to the ground here.

but.... the light bulbs are bitchin'. that makes us all feel better,
as i know it makes you feel better.

 

[480sparky]

Lights in California will give you cancer.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Lights in California will give you cancer.

i'll see your lightbulbs, and raise you a windmill.
y'all are losing ridicule rights on california, if the
news reports are accurate.

;-)

 

[Flicker Index]

https://www.cooperlighting.com/s/programs/pdf/residential-commercial-2020-marketpro.pdf

BLD6089SWHR-CA 6" RD Surface, Direct Mount White 65W INC Selectable 2700K - 5000K 120V 812lumen 9.5watts
BLD6089SWHR 6" RD Surface, Direct Mount White 65W INC Selectable 2700K- 5000K 120V 812lumen 10 watts

But the Eaton/Cooper/Halo stuff often have something different printed on the box than the spec sheet. I'm taking interest in CA certified items in general as they mandate something that is almost never revealed in spec sheet.

Flicker: Standards and Test Methods — LED professional - LED Lighting Technology, Application Magazine

Much has been written and said about Temporal Light Artifacts (TLAs). What is essential about TLAs is that they consist of flicker and/or stroboscopic effects induced by a light stimulus whose luminance or spectral distribution fluctuates with time and causes undesired changes in visual...

www.led-professional.com

California Title 20 and Title 24

Shortly after ENERGY STAR released its recommended practices for the measurement of flicker, the state of California introduced its set of requirements, listed in title 24, Joint Appendix 10 test method for flicker.

California’s requirements include the test method “Joint Appendix 10” (JA10) that requires measuring the light output of a source or luminaire and dimmer for two seconds and then running the data through several complex calculations to evaluate flicker at multiple frequencies up to 400 Hz. Title 24 requires high efficacy sources to be “low flicker operation”, which means that the LED product will have less than 30% flicker at frequencies below 200 Hz. This requirement goes into effect in January 2017. Title 20, which also requires “low flicker operation”, will cover LED lamps, requiring that lamps be tested after being paired with controls.

In this thread, someone complained about excess flicker from LED built into the ceiling fan. I've noticed that it's rather common for many household grade luminaires and fans with permanently installed LEDs to use off the shelf light engines that entirely forego electrolytic capacitors from the LED ballast to reduce cost and increase reliability at the expense of introducing high level of flicker, because it's not a requirement for Energy Star. Fixture manufacturer can of course change their "light engine" source on a whim to lower cost, so one batch could be fine, but another could be flicker hell. You could buy 5 units of the same item, but end up with different engineering revisions where you end up with designs having different LED ballasts. If the L70, lumens and watts are within specs, the fixture manufacture is free to change parts in their production. What I am not certain about is if Title 20 covers ceiling fans and such.

It's much easier to just select Title 20 complying fixtures and lean on that to avoid flicker than to test each product.

 

[Fulthrotl]

https://www.cooperlighting.com/s/programs/pdf/residential-commercial-2020-marketpro.pdf

BLD6089SWHR-CA 6" RD Surface, Direct Mount White 65W INC Selectable 2700K - 5000K 120V 812lumen 9.5watts
BLD6089SWHR 6" RD Surface, Direct Mount White 65W INC Selectable 2700K- 5000K 120V 812lumen 10 watts

But the Eaton/Cooper/Halo stuff often have something different printed on the box than the spec sheet. I'm taking interest in CA certified items in general as they mandate something that is almost never revealed in spec sheet.

Flicker: Standards and Test Methods — LED professional - LED Lighting Technology, Application Magazine

Much has been written and said about Temporal Light Artifacts (TLAs). What is essential about TLAs is that they consist of flicker and/or stroboscopic effects induced by a light stimulus whose luminance or spectral distribution fluctuates with time and causes undesired changes in visual...

www.led-professional.com

In this thread, someone complained about excess flicker from LED built into the ceiling fan. I've noticed that it's rather common for many household grade luminaires and fans with permanently installed LEDs to use off the shelf light engines that entirely forego electrolytic capacitors from the LED ballast to reduce cost and increase reliability at the expense of introducing high level of flicker, because it's not a requirement for Energy Star. Fixture manufacturer can of course change their "light engine" source on a whim to lower cost, so one batch could be fine, but another could be flicker hell. You could buy 5 units of the same item, but end up with different engineering revisions where you end up with designs having different LED ballasts. If the L70, lumens and watts are within specs, the fixture manufacture is free to change parts in their production. What I am not certain about is if Title 20 covers ceiling fans and such.

It's much easier to just select Title 20 complying fixtures and lean on that to avoid flicker than to test each product.

that is why there is a T20 registry. interestingly enough, lighting control systems (vive, grafic eye, nlight, etc.) are NOT
required to be in the registry. individual devices, dimmers and such, are.

i have a light meter that sings, dances, and measures flicker. trust me, all these >90 CRI fixtures are NOT above 90, any
more than 1970's series stereo amps produced the claimed watts. flicker varies widely. so does power consumed.
drivers and LED's are substituted in cheaper fixtures that the light output doesn't maintain consistency from one
batch to the next.

i'd tell the whole sordid story of how the T-24 lighting part 6 came to be, but it's ugly. you know what spawned it, for truth?

the patriot act. chew on that a bit.

 

[hbiss]

before y'all holler it's BS, think of all the things that started in CA
and then moved to your state.

That's because manufacturers found it's cheaper to just build all their products to comply with CA rather to build one for CA and something else for the rest of the country.

Then I remember one (can't remember who) who said screw it, I'm not selling to CA anymore.

So don't go getting the idea that the rest of us like what you are doing!

-Hal

 

[Flicker Index]

i have a light meter that sings, dances, and measures flicker. trust me, all these >90 CRI fixtures are NOT above 90

Is it the MK350N Premium from UPRTek? What do those lamps that are rated >90 CRI actually measure?

 

[Fulthrotl]

Is it the MK350N Premium from UPRTek? What do those lamps that are rated >90 CRI actually measure?

nope.... this one....

Lighting Passport Flagship Spectrometer Set Pro

<ul><li><font class="text-epsilon" style="font-size: 14px;"><b style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; text-indent: -11.2px;"><u>Build to Order</u></b></font></li><li>Handheld, Lightweight, and Portable</li><li>Measures over 90 parameters (CCT, CRI, Illuminance...

alliedscientificpro.com

low to mid 80's is common. color temperature varies. it varies a lot more with cheap LED elements.

think of what stereo amplifier performance stats were like in the 19070's. it's like that.

 

[mopowr steve]

Lights in California will give you cancer.

Next with the way Covid is out there they’ll be blaming lights for causing that too

 

[kwired]

i'll see your lightbulbs, and raise you a windmill.
y'all are losing ridicule rights on california, if the
news reports are accurate.

;-)

Can't speak for 480 or his area of the country. Wind farms going up everywhere around here, not many are in favor of having them here though, or they just don't care. Hardly anyone is publicly supporting them. I can look out my window in my office right now and see six towers, closest one about 3/4 mile away.

 

[romex jockey]

Title 20?

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs): State-Regulated Lamps

seriously .......?

~RJ~