Can you guys help me tackle this one?

[jim mccloy]

Was hired to install a new service entrance and branch circuit wiring for a midget league football press box.

There are three structures in this stadium.

A concession stand...where the main service comes in from underground.

A ticket booth.

The new press box (where I'm installing the new entrance, 100 amps).

Concerning the service entrance all I was told was that they needed a new service for their press box. So I installed a meter box and the whole works. Well, at the end of the day a guy associated with the league comes by and is looking over everything and asks me why they need a meter base because there is already one at the concession stand...( I assumed when they said that they needed "everything" that meant a meter box too) He says that the old press box was fed from the main service in the concession stand. I knew I was in trouble then.

To make this short here is what I have:

I went in to the concession stand and shut the main off and the service conductors that run to the press box are still hot. ???

I found a seperate disconect (150 amps) located about 20 feet from the concession stand and found that it feeds the conductors for the press box. How can this be? they say that the press box is fed from the main service...but it's not. How is the supply for the press box metered?

The press box is located probably more than 100 feet from the concession stand and the supply conductors for the PB are 3 wire 1/0 conductors.

I thought that they had seperate service for the PB...but they said that they looked into it and the commercial rate would be too expensive...nice to find out now.

What I really need to know, and I've asked them but they don't know, or think they know and are wrong, is whre this 150 amp disco for the supply to the PB is being fed from.

Should I contact the power company?

 

[bennie]

Re: Can you guys help me tackle this one?

The supply to the PB appears to be connected ahead of the main switch at the service. This would technically be two services from one drop.

Can you add circuits or a feeder to the main? What is the added load?

This does not appear to be difficult, is there someone locally, you can consult that may be more familiar with this project?

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: Can you guys help me tackle this one?

Bennie: thanks for replying...I suspected that it was connected ahead of the main but I wasn't able to find out from anyone. Nobody associated with this job seems to know anything. I guess I should have asked more questions as well. I know they told me that in order for the power to be shut off at the press box ( the old one) the poco tripped the fuse at the top of a pole...but evidently that's not the case.

As for your two services from one drop scenario...are you saying that there is a connection (or tap) after the meter, but before the main, and then on to that 150 amp disco that supplied the old press box?

Unsure of the exact load...only 2 base board heaters and some flourescent and recessed lighting and the 120/240 score board with 120 master control unit...so not much.

Now they want me to rip off the SE cable and weather head and meter socket and install 2" pvc with pvc weather head and use ICP connectors to connect to the supply.

[ June 12, 2003, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: jim mccloy ]

 

[rrrusty]

Re: Can you guys help me tackle this one?

Can you look in the meter base and try to see if they tapped anything?; Maybe a call to the poco may help you in trying to figure things out: Good Luck

 

[goldstar]

Re: Can you guys help me tackle this one?

Jim,

Definitely contact the poco and have one of their inspectors come out and help determine what has been done. If the meter pan is not locked and you can open it up take a look inside. Many of the lugs are designed to accept two sets of service conductors.

The poco's in my area are now requiring job #'s and/or engineering surveys before starting any job requiring a change or addition to a service. Give them a call.....make sure you're protected.

[ June 13, 2003, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: Can you guys help me tackle this one?

Thanks for the replies, I kind of get the feeling that they wouldn't want the poco to come out and start looking around...but I'm just going off a feeling.

The meter base is locked so I can't get in it look at what's going on.

Where in the NEC does it permit to tap off of service conductors ahead of the main (assuming that they tapped after the meter but before the main) to feed another service at a seperate building?

I gotta call my inspector this morning to let him know what's goin on...he was supposed to come out and inspect everything...but now I guess I have to give him the run down on it all. I certainly don't want him to get wrapped up in something that might be shaky.

 

[hornetd]

Re: Can you guys help me tackle this one?

Originally posted by jim mccloy:
Where in the NEC does it permit to tap off of service conductors ahead of the main (assuming that they tapped after the meter but before the main) to feed another service at a separate building?

It is a maxim of the law that all that is not forbidden is allowed. If the NEC does not forbid a practice or require a particular approach then however you can do it is fine. It is a very common practice to have one service drop supply multiple sets of service entry conductors. If CT metering is used it can be done at the drip loops rather than lower down in the conductors.
--
Tom

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: Can you guys help me tackle this one?

Tom:

Thanks for the input and your comments are appreciated.

I like being exposed to new things...but I'm the kind of guy that always has tons of questions when I come upon things I haven't been exposed to before.

Like for instance, I talked to 2 different inspectors and as I explained to them about the length of the tap from the supply side of the main (about 25-30 feet) to the outside disconnect they both seemed to look upon it with a little negativity. At least that's what I sensed. But they both said that they could live with it.

I contacted the poco and talked to a technical rep...he had to call me back and when he did he said that the 150 amp outside disconnect was too far and that it should be located right AT the meter. He said that there was nothing there to protect their xformer. I told him that I would think that the 150 amp disconnect would be the device that protects the conductors thereby protecting the xformer.

[ June 16, 2003, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: jim mccloy ]