can you have?
- Thread starter rondal1
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goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
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- Electrical Contractor
Re: can you have?
Now, what you cannot do is feed the receptacle in the same way as aforementioned and snap off the neutral tab instead of the phase tab and then feed the top half of the receptacle with 120 volts (hot and neutral) and the bottom half with 240 volts (hot-phase-1 and hot-phase-2).
a) the receptacle is not rated for that voltage or configuration
b) I don't know of any appliance that would be manufactured with a 15 or 20 amp, 120 volt plug and made to operate at 240 volts.
I'll defer to my colleagues for the code references.
Define what you mean by outlet box. If you're talking about a duplex receptacle the answer is yes but let me qualify that answer. You can install a 14/3 or 12/3 cable to a receptacle and snap off the tab on the phase side of the receptacle separating both hot legs and sharing the neutral. Now, although you have 240 volts existing at the junction box you actually have two, 120 volt circuits at the duplex receptacle. However, what you must do is feed that junction box from a 2-pole circuit breaker. That way, if someone has to work on that receptacle both phases can be shut off at once.
Now, what you cannot do is feed the receptacle in the same way as aforementioned and snap off the neutral tab instead of the phase tab and then feed the top half of the receptacle with 120 volts (hot and neutral) and the bottom half with 240 volts (hot-phase-1 and hot-phase-2).
a) the receptacle is not rated for that voltage or configuration
b) I don't know of any appliance that would be manufactured with a 15 or 20 amp, 120 volt plug and made to operate at 240 volts.
I'll defer to my colleagues for the code references.
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: can you have?
Seems to me that any 4-wire outlet, such as for electric dryer, has exacltly that. So the answer is true.
Bob
Seems to me that any 4-wire outlet, such as for electric dryer, has exacltly that. So the answer is true.
Bob
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: can you have?
404.8(B) - provides one instance where devices connected with certain voltages between them are restricted in there grouping. However this section applies to 120V with 277V.
404.8(B) - provides one instance where devices connected with certain voltages between them are restricted in there grouping. However this section applies to 120V with 277V.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
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- Electrical Contractor
Re: can you have?
Wow ! Can't say that I've ever seen one of those so I stand corrected. That's what I like about this forum. Somebody's always willing to help you put your foot in your mouth with the help of a shoe horn !!
Wow ! Can't say that I've ever seen one of those so I stand corrected. That's what I like about this forum. Somebody's always willing to help you put your foot in your mouth with the help of a shoe horn !!
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: can you have?
No, you can't have "110" and "220" in the same box because they are non-exisistent voltages.
No, you can't have "110" and "220" in the same box because they are non-exisistent voltages.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
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- Electrical Contractor
Re: can you have?
Wait a minute: That would require prying off the original 2-pole handle tie; wouldn't that be illegal?
I guess a 3-pole would be just as good. 3 single-poles wouldn't meet the "internal-trip" requirement for the 250v half.
Another option: a 2-pole breaker and a single-pole breaker side-by-side with a 3-pole handle-tie.
Wait a minute: That would require prying off the original 2-pole handle tie; wouldn't that be illegal?
I guess a 3-pole would be just as good. 3 single-poles wouldn't meet the "internal-trip" requirement for the 250v half.
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: can you have?
Yep, I opened up one of the loadcenters in my house and there was 120 volts and 240 volts in there. In multiple sets to boot.
Yep, I opened up one of the loadcenters in my house and there was 120 volts and 240 volts in there. In multiple sets to boot.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
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- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: can you have?
Where is there a common trip requirement?
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: can you have?
There's 210.4(C)Exc. 2. (210.7(C) requires the handle-tie.) I suppose one could argue that 240.20(B)(2) counters 210.4(C)Exc.2.
I've always been under the impression that, while handle-ties are acceptable for common manual breaker operation, an internal common-trip mechanism is required for overcurrent operation.
Let's see...Originally posted by georgestolz:
Where is there a common trip requirement?
There's 210.4(C)Exc. 2. (210.7(C) requires the handle-tie.) I suppose one could argue that 240.20(B)(2) counters 210.4(C)Exc.2.
I've always been under the impression that, while handle-ties are acceptable for common manual breaker operation, an internal common-trip mechanism is required for overcurrent operation.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: can you have?
This is a very common set up for window AC units or through wall AC units.
I would feed it with 3 wire, that would be two hots and a neutral.
This is a very common set up for window AC units or through wall AC units.
Re: can you have?
I took a closer look at mine. 240V is fed by a DP 20A directly to the outlet - dedicated circuit. The 115V is fed from a circuit that has multiple recepticles and is GFCI protected at the loadcenter. EGC are separate for each outlet. There is no common wiring for either outlet of the duplex recepticle. I do vaguely recall a label applied to the face plate - it may have said something about separate feeds and 240V outlet, it's been a while.
I took a closer look at mine. 240V is fed by a DP 20A directly to the outlet - dedicated circuit. The 115V is fed from a circuit that has multiple recepticles and is GFCI protected at the loadcenter. EGC are separate for each outlet. There is no common wiring for either outlet of the duplex recepticle. I do vaguely recall a label applied to the face plate - it may have said something about separate feeds and 240V outlet, it's been a while.
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