Car wash vacuum

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hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
I have car wash facility and vacuums are installed for public use on pedestal outside. Plans show each vacuum pedestal have outlet GFCI fed from panelboard. So I have 8 vacuums and 8 of the outlets GFCI weather proof covers are fed from one 20A circuit. The vacuum are then on pedestal next to outlet cord and plug connected.

Question do car wash vacuum similar to one see on gas station for cleaning car typically come cord and plug connected or are they direct hard wired?
 
T

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
The central vac in my house draws about 15 amps. Obviously there is an error in the OPs case. But the real question is, who puts 8 individual self contained vacs in a commercial car wash? This would normally be a central vac.
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
texie said:
The central vac in my house draws about 15 amps. Obviously there is an error in the OPs case. But the real question is, who puts 8 individual self contained vacs in a commercial car wash? This would normally be a central vac.
Click to expand...

We do have car washes here that also have self service bays, though I have never seen as many as eight.

-Hal
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Ok after speaking with engineer plans now show I have 16 stations and 4 central vacuums each serve 4 stations. Vacuum Shown below link:

Tommy Vacuum Systems

Tommy Car Wash Vacuums feature dual drop hoses, multiple producer options, and colorful partial canopy systems for all your car wash vac system needs
tommycarwash.com tommycarwash.com

Each vacuum power is fed from 120V contactor from car wash controller thru overload relay I assume. Car wash controller shown below link:


shop.tommycarwash.com

Guardian Wash Control System

Your car wash needs a controller that operates precisely and reliably, without missed washes, or technical headaches. You need a controller that puts you in control and keeps you informed, reducing labor and technical headaches for the long haul.The Guardian Wash Control System is a proven...
shop.tommycarwash.com shop.tommycarwash.com

Question if 120VAC single phase is fed from contactor from car wash controller to vacuum should it not require branch circuit breaker overcurrent protection by code?


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Last edited:
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
hhsting said:
Ok after speaking with engineer plans now show I have 16 stations and 4 central vacuums each serve 4 stations. Vacuum Shown below link:

Tommy Vacuum Systems

Tommy Car Wash Vacuums feature dual drop hoses, multiple producer options, and colorful partial canopy systems for all your car wash vac system needs
tommycarwash.com tommycarwash.com

Each vacuum power is fed from 120V contactor from car wash controller thru overload relay I assume. Car wash controller shown below link:


shop.tommycarwash.com

Guardian Wash Control System

Your car wash needs a controller that operates precisely and reliably, without missed washes, or technical headaches. You need a controller that puts you in control and keeps you informed, reducing labor and technical headaches for the long haul.The Guardian Wash Control System is a proven...
shop.tommycarwash.com shop.tommycarwash.com

Question if 120VAC single phase is fed from contactor from car wash controller to vacuum should it not require branch circuit breaker overcurrent protection by code?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
My guess, "car wash controller" is tied to something that processes payment, probably controls wash stations as well as vacuum stations and your vacuum stations are nothing more to it than an accessory item and that is why limited control power is sent from there to a contactor that could control a 1/8 hp load or a 100 hp load - either way all it needs is to send enough of a signal when payment arrangements are met to pull in a control relay and the accessory item is otherwise powered from another circuit.
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I've done a few car washes and I've never installed GFI receptacles where the Vacuums would plug in.

They were all hard wired.

Not sure why any car wash owner would resort to a cord and plug connected pedestal mount vacuum in the first place.

JAP>
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
jap said:
I've done a few car washes and I've never installed GFI receptacles where the Vacuums would plug in.

They were all hard wired.

Not sure why any car wash owner would resort to a cord and plug connected pedestal mount vacuum in the first place.

JAP>
Click to expand...

Is it in code anywhere?


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J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I'm not saying that I've not installed GFI outlets where a vacuum cleaner would plug in if required.

I'm saying its uncommon to see a commercial type vacuum cleaner at a public car wash that would be cord and plug connected.

Every one I've wired or have seen have hard wired vacuum systems.

To me a GFI Protected outlet feeding a cord and plug connected vacuum at a public car wash would lead to a nightmare of service calls.

JAP>
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
jap said:
I'm not saying that I've not installed GFI outlets where a vacuum cleaner would plug in if required.

I'm saying its uncommon to see a commercial type vacuum cleaner at a public car wash that would be cord and plug connected.

Every one I've wired or have seen have hard wired vacuum systems.

To me a GFI Protected outlet feeding a cord and plug connected vacuum at a public car wash would lead to a nightmare of service calls.

JAP>
Click to expand...
Ok but plans say cord and plug connected and GFCI outlet weather proof where vacuums are. If the engineer decides to design it with cord and plug connected and GFCI weather proof outlet where in code it says it cannot be done or GFCI outlet weather proof not allowed for vacuum only direct connect?


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roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
hhsting said:
Ok but plans say cord and plug connected and GFCI outlet weather proof where vacuums are. If the engineer decides to design it with cord and plug connected and GFCI weather proof outlet where in code it says it cannot be done or GFCI outlet weather proof not allowed for vacuum only direct connect?


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Click to expand...
If the engineer wants cord an plug connected and a manufacturer will supply that way then so be it. It has been pointed out that there is no NEC provision prohibiting it.

Roger
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
hhsting said:
Is it in code anywhere?


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Click to expand...
hhsting said:
Ok but plans say cord and plug connected and GFCI outlet weather proof where vacuums are. If the engineer decides to design it with cord and plug connected and GFCI weather proof outlet where in code it says it cannot be done or GFCI outlet weather proof not allowed for vacuum only direct connect?


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Click to expand...

Only thing that would prohibit cord and plug connection would be listing information on the appliance and not a direct code reference.

If you have receptacle outdoors (and even if a 240 volt receptacle in 2017 or 2020 code) GFCI protection will be required for that receptacle because of 210.8 and it's location and not because of what is being supplied.
 
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