cat 3 cable

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Regular POTS (Plain old telephone service) phone wiring yes.

Doorbells, sure but some (not me) will have a hissy fit for not using the 'right' cable for a door bell.
 
As to doorbell wiring, many doorbells these days are electronic with speakers and will pick up a "60 cycle humm" if the wiring is run by electric lines.

So might be a good idea to use shielded wiring.

Of course if they are installing an old fashioned "ding dong" mechanical type doorbell, then no need for this, however they might replace it in the future with a fancy electronic Westminster chime job which will then have a low "hummmm" constantly...
 
I have alot of cat # 3 cable i got from someone and was wondering if it can be used for phone wiring...

What the heck do you think it's for?? If you are using CAT5 you are wasting money and time.

-Hal
 
Billy_Bob said:
As to doorbell wiring, many doorbells these days are electronic with speakers and will pick up a "60 cycle humm" if the wiring is run by electric lines.

So might be a good idea to use shielded wiring.

Of course if they are installing an old fashioned "ding dong" mechanical type doorbell, then no need for this, however they might replace it in the future with a fancy electronic Westminster chime job which will then have a low "hummmm" constantly...
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never had a customer install one with a speaker; why, when you can buy the "old fashioned ding-dong" chime for $10? Plus, you don't have to worry about speakers, etc. . .failing.

i use cat3 for all my doorbell wiring.
 
hbiss said:
I have alot of cat # 3 cable i got from someone and was wondering if it can be used for phone wiring...

What the heck do you think it's for?? If you are using CAT5 you are wasting money and time.

-Hal
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Cat5 has a better NEXT (near-end cross talk) resistance. It can actually carry a higher quality signal. It also has a much higher frequency range (16Mhz for cat3 and 100-350Mhz for cat5 and cat5e). Although most phone equipment's compression is far below the cat3 standards, it's still better practice to use cat5e over cat3. There is little to no difference in price.

If I had bunches of cat3 laying around though, I'd use it for phones. Especially in residential installs where I was pretty certain they wouldn't need the higher bandwidth potential of cat5e. I'm still not certain how either cat cable could be more or less efficient on time though?;)

dp
 
DP_Fuse said:
Cat5 has a better NEXT (near-end cross talk) resistance. It can actually carry a higher quality signal. It also has a much higher frequency range (16Mhz for cat3 and 100-350Mhz for cat5 and cat5e). Although most phone equipment's compression is far below the cat3 standards, it's still better practice to use cat5e over cat3. There is little to no difference in price.

If I had bunches of cat3 laying around though, I'd use it for phones. Especially in residential installs where I was pretty certain they wouldn't need the higher bandwidth potential of cat5e. I'm still not certain how either cat cable could be more or less efficient on time though?;)

dp
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uh oh. hal's been engaged.

i'm making popcorn.
 
Does my post offend? I'm not trying to step on any toes here.

I shouldn't quit my day job? You mean my I.T. consultant/network engineer day job? Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment.
 
DP_Fuse said:
Does my post offend? I'm not trying to step on any toes here.

I shouldn't quit my day job? You mean my I.T. consultant/network engineer day job? Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment.
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mmmm. movie theatre butter.


this flick's kinda slow moving though.

lets get to the action!
 
DP_Fuse said:
Cat5 has a better NEXT (near-end cross talk) resistance. It can actually carry a higher quality signal. It also has a much higher frequency range (16Mhz for cat3 and 100-350Mhz for cat5 and cat5e).
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I have no doubt you already know this stuff, but other's might find it informational. I typed these up at different times a while back in the forum:

The physical difference among twisted-pair cables is the number of twists per foot. All cables will "carry" data at any speed, but the receiving circuitry cannot separate the desired data from induced noise if the noise is present, and not in phase, on both conductors.

The receiving circuitry uses a technology called "common-mode noise rejection." Any electrical signal that arrives equally, and in phase (common mode), on both conductors is ignored, and only the out-of-phase signals (differential mode) are processed and passed on.

Induced noise on a twisted pair that strikes both conductors equally can be rejected. Because higher frequencies have shorter wavelengths, the tighter the twist rate, the higher the frequency of induced noise that can be rejected, which means a higher reliable data-transfer rate.
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Technically speaking, the tight, consistent twists assure that both conductors of a pair pick up induced noise as similarly as possible, so the common-mode noise-rejection input circuitry (typically differential op-amps) can reject it.

All conductors can carry high-speed data streams. The greater the number of twists per foot, the higher the frequency (i.e., the shorter the wavelength) of noise that can be rejected, and thus the greater the reliable transfer rate.

Ever noticed that UTP cable pairs are twisted at slightly different rates? That's to minimize cross-talk among pairs in a given cable, as well as others in close proximity. UTP data cabling is practically immune to 60-Hz interference.

Added: By the way, for POTS (Plain-Old Telephone Service), CAT-3 is all that will ever be needed, and is all I ever run, for voice-only lines, unless I'm paid to run CAT-5e (or better) instead. We'll have optical before that's needed.
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It's really not that different from balanced vs. unbalanced audio cabling.
 
More information is always better ;)

I think we all agree that cat3 is just fine for POTS. I use cat5e everywhere just because. It's always nice if the cable is there for something like a APBX to SIP PBX conversion.
 
It's always nice if the cable is there for something like a APBX to SIP PBX conversion.

I wouldn't worry too much about that happening. They can push that crap all they want but people are finally wising up and seeing it for the snake oil it really is. It winds up costing them much MORE money than what they replaced.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
I wouldn't worry too much about that happening. They can push that crap all they want but people are finally wising up and seeing it for the snake oil it really is. It winds up costing them much MORE money than what they replaced.

-Hal
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Ouch! We are actually doing a bunch of these converts. Mostly using existing data (cat5e) wire for the iPBX system. These systems can be as reliable as any APBX and are for the most part, easier to manage, and have a more robust feature set then ye old systems.

dp
 
Cable Rating...

Cable Rating...

What's the rating of the cable? CM, CMG. CMR, CMP. CM & CMG cannot be used in riser applications, between floors. You must use a riser rated cable CMR or CMP for all vertical feeds.
 
DP_Fuse said:
Does my post offend?
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No. :smile:

I'm not trying to step on any toes here.
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It is hard to avoid stepping on Hal's toes, he is both extremely knowledgeable and as stubborn as a mule. :D

There are only two ways to do anything with low voltage, the wrong way or Hal's way. :wink:
 
Ouch! We are actually doing a bunch of these converts. Mostly using existing data (cat5e) wire for the iPBX system. These systems can be as reliable as any APBX and are for the most part, easier to manage, and have a more robust feature set then ye old systems.

Whatever you say. After they get it installed let me know how much they find out it will cost them to upgrade their network to actually make it work as well as UPS's for the PoE. And don't forget the resident geeks they will need 24/7 to do reboots every other day and software upgrades a few times a year then figure out what the upgrade screwed up. Then let me know when they call you to pull it out. Happens all the time.

Sorry DP, when you are in the telco business these are things you know about. If you are an IT "professional" all you can see is what the computer magazines tell you and these are the people who have been pushing this junk because it's all they understand. I can tell you that hybrid (TDM/IP) systems offer traditional (read more) features than pure IP that is still trying to catch up. It's also less than half the cost and is reliable as "ye old" systems are legendary for.

I think people are finally getting smart to the hype because many RFPs that we have been getting now specify that proposals for pure VoIP systems will not be considered.

Now back on topic!

-Hal
 
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