CAT 5, Burial Rated, Fire Alarm Cable

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
I'm doing the office trailer at my church I mentioned recently in another category.

They want me to bury conduits for phone/data, maybe fire alarm too. I may be limited to 1 1/4 PVC, as someone boring under the driveway is limited to 2" bit. I may be able to get 1 1/2, but doubtful, it is right at 2" OD.

Anyone here familiar with CAT 5 rated for underground conduit/burial? How much thicker is it than standard CAT 5? How many could I get into an 1 1/4 conduit about 150 feet long with 3 90's? Do they make a CAT 5 with 25 pairs or so? If so, how thick is it?
 
I don't remember CAT 4. 3 & 5 were in use when I 1st studied this at all. 3 of course, is history now for new installs. I've seen a little CAT 6, has plastic divider separating the pairs.

Fiber hasn't been mentioned. The little I've been involved with that, we had to do wide radius 90's everywhere. Not practical in this application.

I forgot to ask if there's any reason shielded fire alarm cable couldn't be run in the same conduit.
 
jmellc said:
I forgot to ask if there's any reason shielded fire alarm cable couldn't be run in the same conduit.
Click to expand...

Others may have more knowledge, but after readin Article 760.26, it seems you can have your fire system cable mixed with other types of circuits as long as the conductor insulation is all rated for the max.
 
jmellc said:
I forgot to ask if there's any reason shielded fire alarm cable couldn't be run in the same conduit.
Click to expand...

Job Specs and I personally hate mixing Fire with anything else. IMHO of course.

Check with the FACP manual also.

And dont forget 760.32. Your gonna need transient protection on both ends, unless they are nonconductive (fiber, non shielded)
 
There are outdoor rated cat5's that are not gel filled. They are rated for above-ground, aerial, and in conduit. Conduit fill would be 10 in 1 1/4". I also would not mix fire alarm and data in the same conduit.
 
Fiber? Video -

Fiber? Video -

Here's a video I found on pre-terminated fiber cable. In case you don't know how to terminate fiber yourself. Running fiber would save on space.

 
cochise7969 said:
Here's a video I found on pre-terminated fiber cable. In case you don't know how to terminate fiber yourself. Running fiber would save on space.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the vid. I'll keep that in mind if I do any fiber. Someone at church is consulting with some of the data/com people who will do our setups. I am doing the conduits & wire pulling. Another of those situations where the plan changes every day or 2. A lot of people are involved & it's always hard to get a consensus.

I assume fiber still is too fragile to pull with standard 90's & should not go through LB's? The little fiber I pulled years ago had to have extremely wide radius. Seems a 1 inch conduit would have a 90 with about 36 inch radius, or something like that.
 
I assume fiber still is too fragile to pull with standard 90's & should not go through LB's?
Click to expand...

Not true on sturdy. There is very sturdy stuph out there, with Kevlar strength members. LB's are a different story; bending radius is still important, but some is more flexible than others.
 
jmellc said:
I'm doing the office trailer at my church I mentioned recently in another category.

They want me to bury conduits for phone/data, maybe fire alarm too. I may be limited to 1 1/4 PVC, as someone boring under the driveway is limited to 2" bit. I may be able to get 1 1/2, but doubtful, it is right at 2" OD.

Anyone here familiar with CAT 5 rated for underground conduit/burial? How much thicker is it than standard CAT 5? How many could I get into an 1 1/4 conduit about 150 feet long with 3 90's? Do they make a CAT 5 with 25 pairs or so? If so, how thick is it?
Click to expand...
Notice chapter 9 Table 1 note (5) for multiconductor cables use the actual dimensions, also notice the conduit fill in table 1 depending on cable quantities. Then chapter 9 table 4 for conduit in sq area. If the cat 6 is .20 diam you could put 26 cables in a 1 1/2" RMC (formula is square inches = cable outside diameter squared x (3.1416/4) x Qty of cables).

Get the cabels cut sheet for specific diameters, direct burial or gel filled are rated for UG conduit. Google "cat6 direct burial cable" or something like this.
 
After lots of debate & consults, decisions were finally made to direct bury several CAT 5's, 2 data cables & several fiber cables. I let the cable guy do that. We also ran a 1 1/4 PVC for possible future needs, with a pull string.

I've also asked several times for someone to get the fire alarm guy to call me, if I need to pull any cables for him, etc. Never heard from him. Our facilities guy did decide no FA cable across, that the trailer would have dialing eqpmt of its own. Job is almost over unless I get a call that more stuff is needed. I've had ditch & rough in inspections, will get final soon.
 
Of course, it's the facilities guy's call, but....

Of course, it's the facilities guy's call, but....

jmellc said:
After lots of debate & consults, decisions were finally made to direct bury several CAT 5's, 2 data cables & several fiber cables. I let the cable guy do that. We also ran a 1 1/4 PVC for possible future needs, with a pull string.

I've also asked several times for someone to get the fire alarm guy to call me, if I need to pull any cables for him, etc. Never heard from him. Our facilities guy did decide no FA cable across, that the trailer would have dialing eqpmt of its own. Job is almost over unless I get a call that more stuff is needed. I've had ditch & rough in inspections, will get final soon.
Click to expand...

He's saving the cost of the fire alarm wire and the labor to pull it through the PVC.

He's spending for a FA panel incorporating a dialer, a dedicated 20A circuit breaker (no cost for this if there is already a spare in the trailer's circuit breaker panel), a pair of batteries that will require replacement every 3 - 5 years, and monthly monitoring charges for a separate account. I'm not sure what the rates are in your area, but I've worked for companies that charged $45 per month to monitor a commercial fire system.
 
I've given up asking the details. I'll do as they like & finish up. The FA co. is having a sub pull the cable & set up for them & I've never talked to any of them. I told our manager I've done & what I suspect may still be needed. If I can do more later, I will.
 
MichaelGP3 said:
He's saving the cost of the fire alarm wire and the labor to pull it through the PVC.

He's spending for a FA panel incorporating a dialer, a dedicated 20A circuit breaker (no cost for this if there is already a spare in the trailer's circuit breaker panel), a pair of batteries that will require replacement every 3 - 5 years, and monthly monitoring charges for a separate account. I'm not sure what the rates are in your area, but I've worked for companies that charged $45 per month to monitor a commercial fire system.
Click to expand...

The guy in charge of maintenance agreements at our company would have an uncontrollable case of the giggles if he could get $45/month out of our customers for F/A monitoring.

That said, the current fire alarm control panel may not allow you to go outside the building to extend the detection and notification circuits.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top