CEE or GEC?

[bphgravity]

Lets say a concrete-encased electrode is installed using #4 AWG bare copper and stubbed out of the slab. Since this is defined as an electrode, wouldn't it be permitted to run a grounding electrode conductor to this #4 and splice with an approved device? I have seen the argument that the #4 AWG from the slab needs to be continuous to the service, however I see nothing in the NEC that says the electrode has to be continuous, only the GEC. (250.64(C))

 

[fc]

Re: CEE or GEC?

I don't see why it would not be permitted.
One is the electrode. The other is your GEC.
Would it be a better job without a splice? I think so but like you said the code does not require you to do so.

 

[charlie b]

Re: CEE or GEC?

I believe this topic was discussed recently on this Forum, but I do not recall the results. The issue was, "where does the electrode end and the GEC begin?" 250.52(A)(3) seems to say that once you are no longer under 2 inches of concrete, you no longer have an electrode. Some argued that the section of #4 (or rebar) stubbed out of the concrete was not part of the electrode, but rather part of the GEC.

As I said, I don't recall whether that discussion was conclusive. But I don't think it matters in your situation.

Originally posted by bphgravity:. . . and splice with an approved device?

If by that you mean a method approved under 250.64(C)(1), then you could argue that the GEC is continuous from the service to the conducotr area within the concrete that comprises the "electrode." In other words, the #4 that is stubbed out of the concrete becomes part of the GEC, if you make the right kind of connection.

 

[raider1]

Re: CEE or GEC?

Bryan, you bring up a good question.

Normally what I see is what Charlie B has referenced with 250.64(C)(1) a irreversible crimp between the #4 in the footing and the #4 run from the service enclosure.

Chris

 

[bphgravity]

Re: CEE or GEC?

So the 20' portion of the same conductor that is encased would serve as the CEE and the remaining portion of the same conductor serves as the GEC. That seems reasonable but not clearly defined in the NEC.

 

[fc]

Re: CEE or GEC?

Would you say 10ft of metal water pipe in the ground is your electrode and the pipe that's in the building is GEC?
or a 10' rod in the ground and whats above the ground the GEC?