Ceiling Fan

Status
Not open for further replies.
frank_n

frank_n

Senior Member
Location
Central NJ
I took Celtic's advice and bought TNE from Amazon for $33. I installed it today and it's a little complicated. I guess I need some practice. I looked at a job today and I need a little advice.

Install 4 ceiling fans upstairs and I have attic access. I have to change the single-gang box to a 2-gang and put a dimmer/fan switch next to it, install the box then the fan (purchased by customer). I figured $285 x 4 =1140.

Install 1 ceiling fan (no attic access) on a 12 ft sloped ceiling $385. The total price is $1525.

Does this seem reasonable?

frank_n
 
Will any of these fans be in bedrooms? If so, make sure you factor in AFCI breakers, if you need to install two-pole AFCI breakers for existing multiwire circuits, and if you have to install a subpanel for such a two-pole circuit breaker if the existing panel is from a manufacturer that doesn't make two-pole AFCI breakers. I got seriously hosed on a ceiling fan job last year because of all of this. What really irritated me is that the inspector never even checked the panel!! :x

Otherwise, your estimate sounds like it's in the right ballpark.
 
Jeff
I thought that if you added a new circuit that AFCI's had to be installed, and if you were just adding to the existing circuit that you were not required to add them. Where did you get that you needed to add them from, if the inspector didn't even look for them? I suppose its always up to the AHJ anyway. Its a good suggestion to check first. Anyone else have any input as to how your AHJ's make this call.
 
Jeff is right. The ceiling fan has to be AFCI protected. It doesn't matter if your pulling a new circuit or not. However, you can AFCI protect the existing circuit(s). Much easier and cheaper than running a new AFCI circuit to the upstairs.

Thanks Jeff, I would have made the same mistake.

Frank
 
It often does depend on what the inspector looks for, but the the AHJs I work in all say that anything new in a bedroom must be on an AFCI-protected circuit. It doesn't matter if you pull a new circuit for the fan or put it on an existing one.

Where I ran into trouble was that pulling a new circuit would have been a huge hassle (the location of the new fan in my case was two completely finished floors above the panel), and the existing circuit in the bedroom was part of a multiwire circuit. In fact, just about every circuit in the house was a multiwire circuit. Since the panel was Square-D, I had to put the old multiwire circuit into a new Siemens subpanel since Square-D doesn't make two-pole AFCI breakers.

If I didn't go to all this trouble, the inspector could have failed the job. Of course, I found out later that the inspector didn't even bother to check the panel. I always assume the inspector will be a stickler and do my work according to code. It beats getting red-tagged.
 
I was recently told that the New Jersey DCA has chosen to not require them when they go to the 2005 NEC starting next month. Seems that the State is not convinced that they're reliable enough to require them. This could change however.
 
Re: Ceiling Fan

frank_n said:
I took Celtic's advice and bought TNE from Amazon for $33. I installed it today and it's a little complicated. I guess I need some practice. I looked at a job today and I need a little advice.

Install 4 ceiling fans upstairs and I have attic access. I have to change the single-gang box to a 2-gang and put a dimmer/fan switch next to it, install the box then the fan (purchased by customer). I figured $285 x 4 =1140.

Install 1 ceiling fan (no attic access) on a 12 ft sloped ceiling $385. The total price is $1525.

Does this seem reasonable?

frank_n
Click to expand...


It could be - but are you including the time involved in fishing/snaking wires?

For an existing home, I put the prices higher - about $450/fan (standard 8' - 10' ceiling, remove existing box, install brace, snake wires, etc on EXISTING circuit).

The sloped ceiling, I might charge more - depending on where the switch is (sloped side or flat side of wall? ) sloped is more because the wall is usually less "forgiving".

I would say about 4x450=$1800 ($1900 if on sloped side)....your number is not that far from mine :D

Seems TNE might have been just what you were looking - just tweak it a bit and you'll be fine $$$.

***************

jeff43222 said:
Will any of these fans be in bedrooms? If so, make sure you factor in AFCI breakers,.
Click to expand...

AFCI has NOT been accepted by NJ - yet....they may not even be accepted until the next code cycle.

***************

mark32 said:
Hello,

I am assuming TNE is some type of estimating software. What is the full name, I maybe interested in it.
Click to expand...

You guessed it.
Here is a thread related to TNE:
Estimating and bidding help
 
Re: Ceiling Fan

celtic said:
***************

jeff43222 said:
Will any of these fans be in bedrooms? If so, make sure you factor in AFCI breakers,.
Click to expand...

AFCI has NOT been accepted by NJ - yet....they may not even be accepted until the next code cycle.

***************
Click to expand...

Good point. My bias is toward the latest edition since we always adopt it in full fairly soon after it comes out. I sometimes forget that other parts of the country don't always have the same rules I work under.

I do have two cousins who live in NJ. I'm not sure which exit, though. :D
 
Here is a homework assignment for all of us to try. Read the section of the code that requires afci protection for 120 volt outlets in dwelling bedrooms. Read it very carefully. Use Charlie's rules when reading. Then lets have another discussion if we need to put afci's on EXISTING branch circuits in bedrooms. I am of the opinion that NEW branch circuits must be afci protected. I could be reading it wrong. But I think it says what it says and you would have to be running a NEW branch circuit for the rule to apply.
 
(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All (120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits) supplying (outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms) shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
Click to expand...
Parenthesis added by me.

The entire circuit that supplies an outlet installed (an outlet installed is a new outlet) shall be protected.

I have submitted a proposal to exclude extensions to existing branch circuits (because of Jeff's story) but I sincerely doubt it was accepted. I think the CMP would like to see AFCI protection in older homes, by hook or by crook. :?
 
frank,,
good morning,,
been meaning to tell ya,,you dont have to change the single gang boxes,to 2 gang,,they make a fan & motor control,that is single gang,,
i hope i caught ya in time,,
and if they want these on remote,all ya have to do is feed them,"afci"
and mount the remote by the bed,,
hope this helped,,
 
infinity Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:29 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was recently told that the New Jersey DCA has chosen to not require them when they go to the 2005 NEC starting next month. Seems that the State is not convinced that they're reliable enough to require them. This could change however.
Click to expand...
This is also true for Nebraska
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top