CFL's and AFCI

[wireguy8169]

hello,

looked in the archives and did not find what I am looking for. Anyhow, have a bed room, wired up the lights to get some light in the room for crews to work. Used CFL's in the temp lamps and trips the breaker is this common I can see why and I do see when the CFL fires the AFCI trips. This house is going to have all CFL's and I mainly want to know so when I have issues in other bedrooms I have an idea on how to remedy this....thanks

 

[Buck Parrish]

We just done a house where the HO used all CFL's. I have not had a problem with cfl's tripping afci's.

 

[LEO2854]

hello,

looked in the archives and did not find what I am looking for. Anyhow, have a bed room, wired up the lights to get some light in the room for crews to work. Used CFL's in the temp lamps and trips the breaker is this common I can see why and I do see when the CFL fires the AFCI trips. This house is going to have all CFL's and I mainly want to know so when I have issues in other bedrooms I have an idea on how to remedy this....thanks

Have you check out your temp stringers ?

 

[danickstr]

it could be a brand thing, with both the CAFCI and CFL brands combining to be culprits.

 

[wireguy8169]

Have you check out your temp stringers ?

no temp stringers just pig tails the molded style with a basket on them but I did check them out they were there prior to my taking over the job but the wiring and connections look ok the recp's are not in and all the hots have wire nuts on them, but will have to check again on monday... going to try incandesent lamps and see if that fixes it. I do know the breaker clips were not very tight (QO) .. been away from residential for a few years actually before AFCI became manditory so havent put any in and was dreading it from all the post I have seen with the issues...thanks

 

[cadpoint]

So your using the Base lamp fixtures for temp Lighting ? This is a job that you "took over" ... ? I would megger the circuit(s) and see what U find out! Not only that, I think I'd isolate as required to find the nicked wire were required!

You Could have the Lights on one circuit and the Receptacle on another the Code just says to AFCI it doesn't say how - (just a thought)

I wouldn't trust someone's elses new construction, Hey that's why your there now!

 

[kwired]

make sure you don't have a neutral - ground connection someplace or a lamp with neutral side inadvertently grounded.

 

[LarryFine]

... the recp's are not in and all the hots have wire nuts on them, ...

The neutrals need to be capped, too. GFCI's trip from load-side grounded neutrals, because the EGC's share current.

 

[ericsherman37]

A few years ago I was trimming out a condo project and one of the AFCI circuits would not hold. In troubleshooting it I literally disconnected every single plug and switch and smokie on the whole circuit and pulled the wires all the way out of the boxes and everything. Finally, FINALLY, found the issue: something going on with the factory-installed wire of one of the wall sconce fixtures. As soon as I got that thing off the circuit it worked fine.

So maybe disconnect half the circuit and see if it holds or not, then try the other half, and see if you can isolate the problem.

 

[LEO2854]

no temp stringers just pig tails the molded style with a basket on them but I did check them out they were there prior to my taking over the job but the wiring and connections look ok the recp's are not in and all the hots have wire nuts on them, but will have to check again on monday... going to try incandesent lamps and see if that fixes it. I do know the breaker clips were not very tight (QO) .. been away from residential for a few years actually before AFCI became manditory so havent put any in and was dreading it from all the post I have seen with the issues...thanks

While your doing temp work/ construction do you have to use afci breakers?

 

[cowboyjwc]

So your using the Base lamp fixtures for temp Lighting ? This is a job that you "took over" ... ? I would megger the circuit(s) and see what U find out! Not only that, I think I'd isolate as required to find the nicked wire were required!

You Could have the Lights on one circuit and the Receptacle on another the Code just says to AFCI it doesn't say how - (just a thought)

I wouldn't trust someone's elses new construction, Hey that's why your there now!

I agree, let's not be blaming it all on CFLs, because if they were the problem you would never be able to build a house in CA.

 

[wireguy8169]

While your doing temp work/ construction do you have to use afci breakers?

No I do not have to it had already been terminated to the breaker and I had this problem when I energized the circuit. Anyhow, I found the problem it ended up that he put both the load neutal and that is on the breaker to the neutral bus, I re did it and well now it holds...thanks for all the input..

 

[wireguy8169]

I agree, let's not be blaming it all on CFLs, because if they were the problem you would never be able to build a house in CA.

That is exactly how I see it too that is why I asked I though it to be odd but have also seen several threads on different loads (being thought to) cause AFCI's to trip...when I trouble shoot I never rule out anything nor do I blame anything initially just try to work the problem and narrow it down...Not to mention this is the first time I have actually worked with an AFCI...

Thanks again for the input

 

[cowboyjwc]

That is exactly how I see it too that is why I asked I though it to be odd but have also seen several threads on different loads (being thought to) cause AFCI's to trip...when I trouble shoot I never rule out anything nor do I blame anything initially just try to work the problem and narrow it down...Not to mention this is the first time I have actually worked with an AFCI...

Thanks again for the input

I've been out of the field for awhile so I haven't had to deal with trouble shooting an AFCI problem, but I think to many electricians are to quick to blame an appliance instead of their workmanship.

Somebody said on one of the threads "we never had these problems before AFCI's". Sure we did, we just didn't have anything that would detect it.

Good catch by the way.

 

[wireguy8169]

I've been out of the field for awhile so I haven't had to deal with trouble shooting an AFCI problem, but I think to many electricians are to quick to blame an appliance instead of their workmanship.

Somebody said on one of the threads "we never had these problems before AFCI's". Sure we did, we just didn't have anything that would detect it.

Good catch by the way.

Thank you I knew this would be part of taking on a job someone else started and the customer likes what I am doing so all is well in my universe (for now):grin:

 

[LarryFine]

... I found the problem it ended up that he put both the load neutal and that is on the breaker to the neutral bus, I re did it and well now it holds...thanks for all the input..

Forgive the presumption that it had been wired correctly. That's always the first thing to look for.

 

[kwired]

While your doing temp work/ construction do you have to use afci breakers?

NO

No I do not have to it had already been terminated to the breaker and I had this problem when I energized the circuit. Anyhow, I found the problem it ended up that he put both the load neutal and that is on the breaker to the neutral bus, I re did it and well now it holds...thanks for all the input..

One good reason to connect the circuit to the AFCI - you may find wiring problems sooner than if you wait till project is about finished to connect the AFCI.

I've been out of the field for awhile so I haven't had to deal with trouble shooting an AFCI problem, but I think to many electricians are to quick to blame an appliance instead of their workmanship.

Somebody said on one of the threads "we never had these problems before AFCI's". Sure we did, we just didn't have anything that would detect it.

Good catch by the way.

GFCI's had same situation in their early years - people had to learn that they were being careless, usually with neutral to ground connections being the number one problem

Forgive the presumption that it had been wired correctly. That's always the first thing to look for.

exactly.