CH Breaker with no trip position...UL or NEC violation?

[deleon2kona]

there was a discussion (closed thread) that talke about a breaker, Cutler Hammer type CH, in particular that has no trip position. The breaker is ON, then on overlad, the handle goes straight to OFF position.

besides that and all the disadvantages of not being able to tell if the breaker is OFF or TRIPPED and the circuit needs to be checked, is this being used out there and is legal?

I did not see anything in the NEC that says this design is a violation...but it sure seems that it should? or maybe is it just UL violation?

the handle also has a provision for a padlock. how can that be ok if there is no trip position?

for school research, i am performing a study on breaker design and comparison of current manufacturers.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't believe the nec requires a trip position.

Here is what the nec 2008 says

240.80 Method of Operation.
Circuit breakers shall be trip free and capable of being closed and opened by manual operation. Their normal method of operation by other than manual means, such as electrical or pneumatic, shall be permitted if means for manual operation are also provided.
240.81 Indicating.
Circuit breakers shall clearly indicate whether they are in the open ?off? or closed ?on? position.
Where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the ?up? position of the handle shall be the ?on? position.

 

[e57]

Don't think there is a NEC issue???? - it doesn't stay on.... And thats good... Off the top of my head I can only think of a very few that have a "Tripped Position" (GE... some SqD) Many SqD designs have a red indicating window. (QO, some BO) Otherwise many others do not have anything that specifically says - 'hey look at me'.... Some will be loose when off via a trip by feel alone, because the breaker spring needs to be reset and charged. (Some included instructions to do so - some large frame breakers you may need to pump the handle 3 or more times to reset and charge the spring)

Maybe take a look at the white book

Personally I have great ideas for manufactures for design ideas, and further safety - but they would be far in excess of what the low-balling market would bare.... Current indicating, high/low voltage cut-offs etc. Date/time stamping of certain events, warning conditions - the list just goes on - it's about time the breaker industry entered this century - but no one would pay for it....