Challenger Panels - Florida

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Light Works

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Farmingdale, New York
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Master Electician
Recently 2024 , while in Venice Florida my brother- in -law inquired about an installation of a Manual Transfer Switch for his portable generator .

An electrician came , saw his existing Challenger Panel and responded, he will not do it because the panel is a Challenger Panel, and the Inspector will not pass it -because he has an existing Challenger Panel


Apparently I think , this started with Home inspectors in Florida, indicating a Challenger panel is dangerous - and apparently some insurance companies in Florida are not renewing policies due to these reports


From my understanding - the only problem was their GFI breakers - with the yellow buttons - which were recall in 1988
please see Link - https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/1988/c...ers-replacement-program-for-9000-gfci-circuit


Eaton BR breakers are Listed replacement for Challenger panels

Other then that, some reports may cite - panel obsolete ,may cause overheat and fire

Again ,this can be the case with any brand of panel with improper installations or workmanship -

As far as I know , no one in Florida has challenged these Home Inspection reports that home insurance companies are reacting to

I Know electricians can make money by saying , you need a new panel, your insurance company may not renew because of your existing Challenger panel -

but is it right; if only the obsolete breakers were the problem ,and could be remedied by installation of new Eaton BR listed breaker/s?

Am I not seeing something? the last post I see here was 2017 -


My opinion is a License Electrician should inspect the panel for evidence of over heating ,loose connections, listed breakers, etc.

And on his invoice either cite No Discrepancies Noted ,or list the Discrepancies Noted ,with recommendations for corrective action







Comments?
 
Hi Roger - I understand that insurance companies can do anything they want , however the question is, Are all Challenger Panels automatically deem unsafe fire hazards, Without cause and proper justification.

Are the experts saying it is OK- with out proper cause to condemn any product from opinion only? What are the facts?

Is the Challenger panel unsafe ,or only the recalled breakers?
 
I have heard they are being rejected by insurance companies but I don't have any first hand experience with it, the last Challenger stuff I used was in the late 80's.
 
Thank -you Roger - I also have not heard about Challenger panel problems either ,until recently.
This problem appears to have started with Home inspector in Florida , and seems to have started and is limited to , only in Florida.

If the Challenger Panel is a problem then it should be a nation wide problem, If not then, the correct information should be shared...

Thank you again for taking time today - I appreciate it
 
This has been discussed. Challenger panels thay take type C breakers are not unsafe and the BR line of breakers still uses the same technology. Challenger type A breakers (the 'side clip' ones), in my opinion, are unsafe and should be replaced, and I've seen cases where they had caused arcing damage that called for the panel to be replaced. But not all Challengers had type A breakers installed nor will the damage occur every time. This is apparently too much nuance for home inspectors and insurance companies (who may also be looking for any excuse to deny coverage).

If the HIs can reserve enough space in their brains to write up a Challenger panel as "Recommendation: Have a licensed electrician inspect to ensure this panel is in acceptable working order" instead of "Unsafe! Must replace!", you could be living in a more rational world.
 
Jaggeben -Thank-you for your input . Understood - appreciate your time - Thank you

Strahead - True any one can do what ever they may want - but the question remains - what is the truth - What is right , what are the facts concerning Challenger panels versus any other electrical panel . It is never good for an expert to echo false claims, that may result in costly and unnecessary action/s. If their is a legitimate reason to make claim as to Challenger panels need to be replaced any more then other brands, please cite the facts. your input is appreciated it - Thank You
 
At one point in the mid 80's Challenger had 3 lines of residential breakers.

The Type C and Type A breaker which in my opinion is no more unsafe than any other breaker from that time. As was pointed out by Jaggedben the 1/2" A breaker with the side clip was know for failure at the buss connection. I think that was due to the clip being exposed to being bent prior to installation. Even if this clip connection failed I have never seen any damage other that the breaker and buss connection. It doesn't cause a building to burn down. Challenger was my main line for probably 10 years and I always made sure I pressed the side clips closed before installing. I never received any call backs from projects but that donesn't mean there weren't any probelms.

Challenger also had the Zinsco line of breakers. I know these breakers get very bad press but when I did service I would frequently find Zinsco breakers tripped but the handle would not indicate because the grease was old. I never saw any damage to branch circuit wiring from them failing to trip. They do suffer from buss connection problems but not sure any more than any other brand of breaker that has been around so long.

Challenger also acquired the FPE Stab-Lok breakers and was heavily marketing them during the mid 80's. The Stab-Lok line was eventually sold to Schneider and continued to be a common loadcenter and breaker line sold in Canada. In the SF Bay Area there are several companies that sell used an reconditioned breakers. When anyone purchases a used breaker they test it prior to sale. Back when I did residential remodel and service work I did quite a bit of business with them. I had asked all of them about failure rates a FPE breakers. All of the said the FPE breaker had a much higher PASS rate when tested compared to all other manufactures.

So.........When home inspectors/insurance companies see the Challenger name they assume all of the products are bad.
 
If Challenger panels need to be pulled then BR panels from after the time Westinghouse acquired Challenger until the PON panels were introduced needs to go to since they were Challenger designed. I do not like Challenger, or Eaton BR, as they were/are the Yugo, of the electrical industry, but without a recall it's a bit much require the replacement of a panel, unless the physical condition says otherwise.
 
its a scam if there unsafe so are Eaton,Seimens,and square d, they are virtually the same, Not counting CH or QO , If they want a great connection they should mandate bolt, other wise a panel change is basically like for like.
 
curt swartz said:
...When anyone purchases a used breaker they test it prior to sale. Back when I did residential remodel and service work I did quite a bit of business with them. I had asked all of them about failure rates a FPE breakers. All of the said the FPE breaker had a much higher PASS rate when tested compared to all other manufactures.
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Click to expand...

Interesting.
 
Light Works said:
Jaggeben -Thank-you for your input . Understood - appreciate your time - Thank you

Strahead - True any one can do what ever they may want - but the question remains - what is the truth - What is right , what are the facts concerning Challenger panels versus any other electrical panel . It is never good for an expert to echo false claims, that may result in costly and unnecessary action/s. If their is a legitimate reason to make claim as to Challenger panels need to be replaced any more then other brands, please cite the facts. your input is appreciated it - Thank You
Click to expand...
HUH? My comment was mean to be facetious. Nothing about right or wrong, just that insurance companies do what they want everywhere not just Florida.
 
Arnt the regular 1" wide challenger breakers from the 80's known to be questionable? MY main client has them and we had maybe 6 burn up that were serving HVAC loads. Also the handle often doesn't move when tripped (or very slightly so hard to see) and sometimes they seem to be a little slow to trip. I'm going to be changing them all out.
 
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