I was recently told by an electrician in NJ that the law was changed on Jan 1, 2005 that requires all homes with knob and tube wiring to remove it before the home is sold. Does anyone know if that is true, as it is the first time I have heard about this or any of my colleagues. This is essential to us as I need to be advising my clients of this when I do my inspection. Thanks.
Change in NJ code laws
- Thread starter Chick
- Start date
- Status
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Change in NJ code laws
if this is true, it will amount to a huge hit on people selling their homes.
I have to believe this would cost at least $30,000 in a typical home.
if this is true, it will amount to a huge hit on people selling their homes.
I have to believe this would cost at least $30,000 in a typical home.
Re: Change in NJ code laws
That was my concern and the reason I need to know if this is true or misinformation. It would be my obligation to inform my clients of this as the impact is tremendous. I cannot imagine how we would not have heard more about such a major change but the electrician seemd adamant.
That was my concern and the reason I need to know if this is true or misinformation. It would be my obligation to inform my clients of this as the impact is tremendous. I cannot imagine how we would not have heard more about such a major change but the electrician seemd adamant.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Change in NJ code laws
As far as I know New Jersey follows the NEC without any amendments. Currently we are under the 2002 NEC. Knob and tube wiring is still allowed under the 2002 NEC so I'm having a hard time believing that it's use has been completely banned. In fact New Jersey has it's own rehab code which is far less restrictive than the NEC but it's application is rather limited.
As far as I know New Jersey follows the NEC without any amendments. Currently we are under the 2002 NEC. Knob and tube wiring is still allowed under the 2002 NEC so I'm having a hard time believing that it's use has been completely banned. In fact New Jersey has it's own rehab code which is far less restrictive than the NEC but it's application is rather limited.
Re: Change in NJ code laws
I'll refer to the Rehab Code Homepage - which allows just about any "pre-existing" condition.
If you read the section titled "Rules That Make Sense?New Jersey?s Rehabilitation Subcode", you will that the K & T "issue" is not the only "issue" - door openings, egress windows, structural members ALL play important parts in a safe home. To bring EVERYTHING in a home up to the current standard would create huge financial burdens for both home buyer and seller.
As far as I am aware, the only conditions (NEC code wise) upon sale of real property in NJ are:
- the bath and kitchen outlets be GFCI protected
- in a MF property (3 floors or more) Emergency lighting w/battery backup must be installed
I'll refer to the Rehab Code Homepage - which allows just about any "pre-existing" condition.
If you read the section titled "Rules That Make Sense?New Jersey?s Rehabilitation Subcode", you will that the K & T "issue" is not the only "issue" - door openings, egress windows, structural members ALL play important parts in a safe home. To bring EVERYTHING in a home up to the current standard would create huge financial burdens for both home buyer and seller.
As far as I am aware, the only conditions (NEC code wise) upon sale of real property in NJ are:
- the bath and kitchen outlets be GFCI protected
- in a MF property (3 floors or more) Emergency lighting w/battery backup must be installed
Re: Change in NJ code laws
NEC 394.12(5) does not permit energized knob and tube wiring that is in contact with thermal insulation or soundproofing insulation. This could be an issue. The Consumer Product Safety Commission has made a statement that in this situation the overcurrent protection be reduced to
10 amps for #14 copper
15 amps for #12 copper
20 amps for #10 copper
The concern is that knob and tube wiring frequently has splices outside of boxes and that some splices are not as goog as new and generate extra heat. Also, the insulation usually too old to withstand 60 degree Celsius operation.
If you go over to Dr. Jesse Aronstein's web site www.inspect-ny.com you will find out that there are some instances where thermal insulation has caused electricity to leak out of knob and tube wiring into the woodwork creating an extra cost on the electric bill. Some electrical utilites check for this and sometimes find somebody who 500 or 1,000 watts leaking into their woodwork.
Incidentally, Cleveland, Ohio and many of the surrounding suburbs had make work rules that said that you had to use knob and tube in houses long after a lot of other places had banned the stuff as unsafe. My girlfriend's 2nd bathroom has knob and tube wiring with PLASTIC insulation in the wires! This went on until NFPA amended National Electrical Code to ban the stuff nationwide starting with 1974 NEC. One of the suburbs around here was the last place in the U.S. to stop using knob and tube and they did not stop until the end of 1973.
NEC 394.12(5) does not permit energized knob and tube wiring that is in contact with thermal insulation or soundproofing insulation. This could be an issue. The Consumer Product Safety Commission has made a statement that in this situation the overcurrent protection be reduced to
10 amps for #14 copper
15 amps for #12 copper
20 amps for #10 copper
The concern is that knob and tube wiring frequently has splices outside of boxes and that some splices are not as goog as new and generate extra heat. Also, the insulation usually too old to withstand 60 degree Celsius operation.
If you go over to Dr. Jesse Aronstein's web site www.inspect-ny.com you will find out that there are some instances where thermal insulation has caused electricity to leak out of knob and tube wiring into the woodwork creating an extra cost on the electric bill. Some electrical utilites check for this and sometimes find somebody who 500 or 1,000 watts leaking into their woodwork.
Incidentally, Cleveland, Ohio and many of the surrounding suburbs had make work rules that said that you had to use knob and tube in houses long after a lot of other places had banned the stuff as unsafe. My girlfriend's 2nd bathroom has knob and tube wiring with PLASTIC insulation in the wires! This went on until NFPA amended National Electrical Code to ban the stuff nationwide starting with 1974 NEC. One of the suburbs around here was the last place in the U.S. to stop using knob and tube and they did not stop until the end of 1973.
- Status