Changing out old Federal Pacific 3-phase 208 breaker panel no ground

[H motley]

I have a bank customer that wants to change out an old Federal Pacific 208 3ph 4 wire breaker panel with no ground . rigid conduit to old service distribution panel .Some years ago a electrical contractor installed a new electrical service for the bank in another area of the basement about 40 feet away when the electrician did this you ran the distribution from the main new service in PVC conduit with no ground wire there's no possible way to to pull a new ground wire is it possible to run a separate conduit alongside for just the ground to the replacement panel . I was looking in the 2011 code book 250.134 exception no. 1 it says the equipment grounding conductor shall be permitted to be run separately from the circuit conductors is this been removed I misplaced my 14 code book don't have a new 17 and will this work for this situation

 

[ActionDave]

Are we for sure talking about service conductors and conduit?

250.134 is about equipment grounding and won't apply to services and the exception that allows the EGC to be run outside the conduit is very restricted on the few times you can use it.

The good news is the rigid steel you already have may satisfy the code.

 

[H motley]

Sorry let me clarify shouldn't have said distribution from the new service panel they ran a 4 wire three phase with no ground in PVC conduit to the old service fused switch connected this to existing wires that run in rigid conduit to the panel upstairs

 

[H motley]

This is a 208 volt system

 

[LarryFine]

Is this old switch the first disconnecting means in the conductors' pathway?

If so, the PVC contains service conductors, and the neutral may be used; if not, it's a feeder and needs the EGC.

Why are you adamant that an EGC can not be added?

 

[H motley]

They ran PVC conduit from the new service point to the original old disconnect that is not being used as a disconnect but it's converted to just a junction box and then up to the old panel upstairs

 

[LarryFine]

Ah. Back to my last question.

 

[H motley]

If I could add gec I'd have to pull all the wire out and repull that's my only choice plus previous contractor didn't size their conduit any too big

 

[LarryFine]

Still, necessary. Customer pays.

 

[readydave8]

If I could add gec I'd have to pull all the wire out and repull that's my only choice plus previous contractor didn't size their conduit any too big

So can't or don't want to?

 

[H motley]

Thanks you guys answered everything what I thought just double-checking see if there's anything I missed . I hate trying to fix what the previous contractor did this is not the first time with this one

 

[ptonsparky]

Do some load calculations and see if you can reduce the neutral enough to get the 5th wire in.

 

[LarryFine]

Thanks you guys answered everything what I thought just double-checking see if there's anything I missed . I hate trying to fix what the previous contractor did this is not the first time with this one

As long as you're getting paid for making the corrections, it just becomes part of the job. Make sure you document everything.