What does the code say about running out of a receptacle that has #12 wire feeding it, on a 20A ckt.... to feed a light or two using #14 gauge wire? Can this be done or do you HAVE to maintain the #12 throughout the entire branch.. if there are only a couple of amps load on the #14 for the lights?
Changing Wire Size
- Thread starter captkel
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Changing Wire Size
If it's on a 15 amp breaker, knock yourself out.
Otherwise, no.
If it's on a 15 amp breaker, knock yourself out.
Otherwise, no.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Changing Wire Size
Why is this question asked so frequently?
Is this something that is really that misunderstood? I don't get it.
Why is this question asked so frequently?
Is this something that is really that misunderstood? I don't get it.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Changing Wire Size
probably because someone got called for doing something that has been done a thousand times before and no one said anything about it.
probably because someone got called for doing something that has been done a thousand times before and no one said anything about it.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Changing Wire Size
I believe the problem comes from confusion over Table 210.24. This table is only good if you are completely aware of the exact rules in which taps are permitted.
See section 240.5 and 210.19(A)(3) Exception 1, and 210.19(A)(4) Exception 1.
I believe the problem comes from confusion over Table 210.24. This table is only good if you are completely aware of the exact rules in which taps are permitted.
See section 240.5 and 210.19(A)(3) Exception 1, and 210.19(A)(4) Exception 1.
Re: Changing Wire Size
Thank you George...Bryan...You are exactly correct in the assumption that the confusion arose from Table 210.24...After years working at a power plant where code is not recognized...I am trying to get up to its standard...Man what a lot of confusion it can be if you have never dealt with it! Thanks again...
Thank you George...Bryan...You are exactly correct in the assumption that the confusion arose from Table 210.24...After years working at a power plant where code is not recognized...I am trying to get up to its standard...Man what a lot of confusion it can be if you have never dealt with it! Thanks again...
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Changing Wire Size
Don't taps eventually have to have the correct size OCPD protecting them?
Re: Changing Wire Size
Posted by Petersonra;
210.19(4) is written in a very backwards manner. Don't most of the exceptions in other articles relax the requirements of the basic paragraph?
In 210.19(4), the basic paragraph seems to allow #14 taps. Then as you read farther, it limits where you can use it.
And the basic paragraph is very easy to read and understand. The exception is almost undecipherable.
Steve
Posted by Petersonra;
Only when the specific paragraph that allows the tap requires it. I think you are thinking of some of the feeder tap rules in 240.
210.19(4) is written in a very backwards manner. Don't most of the exceptions in other articles relax the requirements of the basic paragraph?
In 210.19(4), the basic paragraph seems to allow #14 taps. Then as you read farther, it limits where you can use it.
And the basic paragraph is very easy to read and understand. The exception is almost undecipherable.
Steve
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: Changing Wire Size
Doesn't it seem sensible to consider that the only way this could be allowed is if there is some level of guarantee that the load could never exceed 20A? The optimum word here is "could". Since it is impossible for the installer to know what the load will be at some point in the future, it would seem plausible that one must size the circuit for the worse case scenario. In this case, continue with the 12awg wire size.
Bob
Doesn't it seem sensible to consider that the only way this could be allowed is if there is some level of guarantee that the load could never exceed 20A? The optimum word here is "could". Since it is impossible for the installer to know what the load will be at some point in the future, it would seem plausible that one must size the circuit for the worse case scenario. In this case, continue with the 12awg wire size.
Bob
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Simple answer: Yes, you must maintain the wire size throughout the circuit, regardless of the expected load, circuit extensions, switch loops and legs, etc., even a TV receptacle.captkel said:
If you must use #14, the entire circuit must be protected by a 15-amp breaker, and really should be marked as such in the panel to avoid an understandable mistake during a service change, for example.
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