charges for time, material. labor???

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CBL

CBL

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So Cal
Hi, I'm in So Cal and am curious as to how much is being charged for things such as adding an outlet to an existing circuit, adding a circuit with and without attic/basement access, I charge this based on time and material.. ($65 hour with helper and double material cost) I know double material sounds high but when you double $1.25??? so i charge a minimum of $5 on anything worth listing... ( no I don't list wire nuts) Is the troubleshooting hourly rate charged more than the service hourly rate , or am I better off to charge a flat service charge for each project and add material on top, are businesses charging travel time as a flat fee if out of 10 mile radius (which is nothing in So Cal) or so much per mile after a certain distance or no charge at all and decline the job if out of range ...Also prices being charged for materials..How much mark-up? I don't wan't to get to detailed on small items but I don't want to leave money on the table either.. like for a switch, recepticle. GFCI, j-box... As an example say I tapped into an existing outside wall fixture on a apt. complex and ran #12, 30ft down in 1/2 thinwall conduit to 5.25 round j-box and installed another fixture. How much for #12 wire, conduit, J-box...fixtures I do 1.7 as a standard when doing one or two fixtures and less when exchanging more than 10/20, I don't think this is gouging because of the time spent in quoteing, which is all done in excell with pictures of existing fixture or job, replacement, time and materiels, ordering, shipping charges etc... Thanks, Jerry
 
The best way to find out what is being charged in your area is too call your competition. Pretend to be a dumb HO and ask questions.
If you can, and really want to feel out the comptetion, use a friends house as bait & get them to come over & give you a quote, just leave your van at home! This is really cool as you can pretend to be doing a kitchen remodel & service change & adding cans in the living room, etc. get the prices broken down as you may not have the money to do it all at once.
Ask how fast they can get to it & how long they think it will take.
Then after the quotes tell them you have to talk it over with your wife & you'll call them back, tomorrow.
Don't worry about running into them later at the supply houses, if you do, you can just laugh about it with them!!!
 
I am In Canada and for those small jobs at 65.00/hour with a helper i would be out of business very Rapidly. I use some Flat rate stuff as my costs per hour is at least 140.00 with a helper . not sure how i would survive at 65/hour.
With this type of work your lucky to have 5 hours a day bringing in Revenue.
I need 200.00 per day Just just to answer the phone. Thats 4000 per month in overhead before I tack on wages.
 
77401 said:
OK..I'l bite.
Without being nosy, what does $4000/month get you.
Can you elaborate?
Just how many crews or guys do you run? How many non revenue generating staff do you have?
Click to expand...

Well heres one month from last spring .
auto insurance 159.89
auto operating 585.32
auto repairs tires or even auto payment 583.17

bank charges for account 71.00
business development 164.67
liability insurance 82.40
licenses and bonding 39.00
book keeping 200.00
INTERNET 49.00
office maintenance 68.68
office insurance 20.59
postage 41.42
printing and reproduction 25.00
office supplies 162.14
employee benefits 95.94
office rent 350.00
shop supplies 282.00
telephone and yellow pages cel phone and 650.00 includes an ad in other book
electric and gas 140.00
workers comp 145.00

that is almost 3600.00
and theres a few things i have missed like lost tools. theft , damage,tool wear and tear ladder replacement etc

book keeping is going up too 300 per month and i will probably need an accountant this year before the year end also.
I hope this helps a bit. my costs are low compared to others in the service industry.

I haven't added any thing for office equip software etc.

And no your are not nosy I am happy to tell others what it costs me to run a one man show with a helper
If you work from Home or have a office somewhere else it doesn't matter we have overhead.

If others could help me with where i have missed some costs to include please post them.
 
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Very interesting,
how many guys do you have?
With those numbers I can see you have no office staff...yet.

Now I want to question how much of this is a fixed cost per month. by fixed cost, I mean a cost that you have if you have no jobs & the phone never rings.
Are these fixed cost?
auto repairs tires or even auto payment 583.17
shop supplies 282.00
office supplies 162.14

I think your fixed cost could be 1/3 higher than actually are.

What is business development? 164.67
In the US we call that Entertainment, which is.. food drinks, season tickets, greens fees, strip clubs,etc. Now that can be $3600 a month if I wasn't carefull....LOL
 
auto repairs i drive a 1978 Van i will leave it at that I only assume a new Sprinter van would cost me that in a lease anyhow.
Shop supplies this is a hard one it covers screws wire nuts handy wipes just the every day stuff i need in stock yes it may be high

office supplies
toner for Fax ...printer ink the odd piece of hardware for computer etc
paper too
and yes you pegged the business development right on the money :)
 
Seeing how i seem to live in a high risk theft area now it wasn't always like this i need to alarm the small storage sheds also i need security camera with digital recording and yard lighting
I haven't even figured out where this money is going to come from.
Last year i lost about 5000.00 in tools and equipment and i ate it
The 1000.00 deductible and time loss dealing with insurance companies plus maybe the premiums going up I decided to leave it alone :(
that might of been a mistake maybe i should of put a claim in.
 
At 200 a day, your low on the overhead, when i get up in the morning i face a $360 or more nut, and that does not include any labor, we are a 2 man with one helper, work or no work, he said, "I don't want to leave money on the table either." forget about leaving money on the table, at 65 with a helper, i can't belive he has a table to leave anything on.
 
Doug let me help you in one place. I don't have a problem with what you charge or how you got to that price.
BUT!
Get rid of the old van, buy a new E250 van, finance it for 4 years & keep if for 8 years. You gotta trust me on this, its the best return for the money and time!, not counting the stress, money & down time for repairs that old van cost you. plus it will present better to your customers
If you want to lease a car to replace every 3 years get a Porsche like mine.
If it cost you so much for security to live in a high crime rate, have you considered moving to a more expensive, lower crime rate area?
Just my unsolicited 2 cents, it sounds like you spend a lot of good money on bad things you could avoid.
 
A new Van is very good Advice .
I have been trying to just get though with the one I have.
As for the crime rate its just an issue thats been a problem for about a year.
I do worry about the drug addicts looking for a quick fix at my expense ,but I think once they know they are under surveillance around my house the wont bother to come around my area.
I appreciate all the 2 cents worth :)
 
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satcom said:
." forget about leaving money on the table, at 65 with a helper, i can't belive he has a table to leave anything on.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice/info Electricguy,and the file 77401, I will try and call the compition and see what happens, I thought about this before and never followed through...Satcom, this is why I'm trying to find out what is being charged out there???, while I still have a table :) Thanks though that must mean I'm pretty low...We had a 78 Dodge van and 3 years ago I got a 2001 GMC Savanna 2500 and put the name with a 1-888 number on the sides and it's probably the best thing I've done yet... Had to look around for awhile but got it from a leasing out fit with 14,000 miles on it. I leave it at the shop at night and drive an old "Point A to Point B" car to and from home to try and keep the miles down.
 
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Last week, I noticed a new EC with an ad in the local paper under me, I called him right away & asked what he charged for a ceiling fan replacement & how fast he could get to it. He's said $67.50 So I'm thinking WTF is with the .50 cents? LOL
My view on Vans is they are tools of the trade & just like tools, I always buy the best and buy new & keep them till either they break or are no longer efficient. Vans have a life expectancy, for me I have found 8 years old, the doors start falling off the suspensions start to give. For what this has to make me per day, I cannot afford to have it down & cost me for repairs. So I budget & plan for new vans on 8 year plans.
But my newest van I really splurged, this one I drive daily & I found one with power windows, mirrors & locks. Put chrome rims on it too! SWEET!
 
electricguy said:
I do worry about the drug addicts looking for a quick fix at my expense ,but I think once they know they are under surveillance around my house the wont bother to come around my area.
Click to expand...

Good friends of mine recently moved to Nainamo, BC. They hadn't even unpacked the boxes before they were robbed blind. And this was in a nice, quiet little area, I think.

Has anyone out there considered just spraying the neighborhoods with methadone regularly? Maybe they can use the same trucks they spray for mosquitos with... :)
 
"Get rid of the old van, buy a new E250 van, finance it for 4 years & keep if for 8 years. You gotta trust me on this, its the best return for the money and time!, not counting the stress, money & down time for repairs that old van cost you. plus it will present better to your customers "

That is good advice for every service contractor, it is less expensive in the long run.

Yes, it was a way of getting your attention, that your rates may be a tad low.

On the $67.25, the Guys from the box stores are advertising a price near that,
the guy that pumps our gas, was telling us, his sister, had them do a $69 fan install, the $69 install ended up costing $312, they had a menu, fan bracket extra, assemble fan extra, assemble light extra, mount light extra, mount fan $69, so some EC sees this ad and figures well i guess they can do it for $69, so i will have to compete, not understanding , the method they use to get in the door.
 
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satcom, you're from NJ as well. As you know, the biggest problem is that there really is no business knowledge requirement to become a contractor. The little bit that is on the test is BS.

And unfortunately, most guys don't bother to come and learn about the business side of things.
 
emahler said:
satcom, you're from NJ as well. As you know, the biggest problem is that there really is no business knowledge requirement to become a contractor. The little bit that is on the test is BS.

And unfortunately, most guys don't bother to come and learn about the business side of things.
Click to expand...

So how did you learn business?
Texas Examine has ZERO questions on business. To become a Contractor you need to have insurance & fill out a few pages of forms. Name, address, Phone # and thats all.
When I was in the JATC I was always asking about getting classes on business or Estimating. They always said we didn't need it. Now I'm an EC, I agree, Why should I train my apprentice to compete with me someday.
 
http://www.bizstats.com/

BizStats.com useful business statistics


Average profitability & expense percentages for U.S. small businesses*
Construction - Special Trade Contractors* $ %
800 Per Day x 5 = 4000 Week x 50 = 200,000
Total Revenue (Sales) $200,000* 100.00%
Total Expenses as % of Revenue $151,471* 75.7%*
Net Income to Owner as % of Revenue $48,529* 24.3%*

Detail of Expenses (as % of Revenue)
Cost of Goods Sold $77,409* 38.7%*
Salaries & Wages $12,804* 6.4%*
Advertising $1,075* 0.5%*
Auto & Truck Expenses $11,281* 5.6%*
Depreciation $6,713* 3.4%*
Employee Benefits $292* 0.1%*
Home Office Business Expenses $737* 0.4%*
Insurance $3,887* 1.9%*
Interest Expense $1,315* 0.7%*
Legal & Professional Services $708* 0.4%*
Meals & Entertainment $391* 0.2%*
Office Expense $988* 0.5%*
Retirement Plans $172* 0.1%*
Rent - Equipment $1,646* 0.8%*
Rent - Office & Business Property $1,194* 0.6%*
Repairs $2,065* 1.0%*
Supplies $7,059* 3.5%*
Taxes - Business & Payroll $2,370* 1.2%*
Travel $633* 0.3%*
Utilities $2,263* 1.1%*
Other Expenses $16,470* 8.2%*
Total Expenses as % of Revenue $151,471* 75.7%*
 
Aline,

2 things, the $48k would be gross income.

2nd, of I am a 1 man working from home, then i really don't have any of that overhead. All I have is my phones and my vehicle.
 
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