Charging for trouble call

[Fred B]

I get a call from a contractor working at a home that I changed out a breaker box on a few months back. He had a breaker that kept tripping when he used his brick saw. I get there and check circuit, existing wireing, no changes to circuit, by all appearances good. Was 15A Siemens AFCI with trip diagnostic feature that indicates an overload. So I open panel and meter circuit no loads on circuit that tripped, voltages on panel within 0.9 volt L1-N to L2-N with all other potential loads on, 120-240 single phase, voltage on question circuit within that tolerance, breaker off no metered shorts, so I have the Mason hook up the saw while I had amp meter on the line, got a surge amperage of 58 amps that leveled off to about 19 to 20 amp and had him turn it off as breaker start to buzz, probably about to trip, remind you he is on a 15A breaker, existing wireing 14AWG romex. Checked his saw and the motor plate lists at 16.8Amps and a 1.5hp motor no FLA listed, calculations on the Mike holts app list that should be about 20A. Appears saw is simply overloading circuit.
So do you charge for this service/trouble call in that there was no issue with breaker/ AFCI fault or the existing breaker panel change out? Time inspecting panel, wireing, and breakers both thermally and voltage, then troubleshoot and metering saw load onto the circuit as well as travel time?

 

[ptonsparky]

Maybe.
How often do you get work from this contractor? Do you ever want to?

 

[James L]

Maybe.
How often do you get work from this contractor? Do you ever want to?

This, and even....
Is his work "good" work? Do you make good, efficient money from him?

Do you work for him regularly?

Is this an isolated freak call, or us he prone to calling about stuff like this frequently?

 

[Fred B]

Never got a call from him before but he is contracted through a GC that I get a lot of work trough.

 

[Nuber]

I make sure that anyone who calls out for a trouble call understands that it is a chargeable call before I ever get there. We don't leave for the job until the customer understands that 1 hour minimum charge is coming there way.

Now if post 2 or 3 conditions are important, then we can make it a no call service charge after the fact - and we do at times. There is nothing wrong with professional courtesy for friends, family, or quality associates. Consider it as advertising.

I am just a big fan of services rendered, services charged for: your knowledge and skill and time is worth money. That guy couldn't figure it out and you did.

Side question - did you have 20 amp receptacles put in that garage? If not was the saw modified for a 15 amp cord cap? A 16.8 amp tool should have had a 20 amp cord cap from the factory. Something seems fishy here.

 

[LarryFine]

I make sure that anyone who calls out for a trouble call understands that it is a chargeable call before I ever get there. We don't leave for the job until the customer understands that 1 hour minimum charge is coming there way.

This. You were hired to perform work. The results don't change that.

 

[Fred B]

I make sure that anyone who calls out for a trouble call understands that it is a chargeable call before I ever get there. We don't leave for the job until the customer understands that 1 hour minimum charge is coming there way.

Now if post 2 or 3 conditions are important, then we can make it a no call service charge after the fact - and we do at times. There is nothing wrong with professional courtesy for friends, family, or quality associates. Consider it as advertising.

I am just a big fan of services rendered, services charged for: your knowledge and skill and time is worth money. That guy couldn't figure it out and you did.

Side question - did you have 20 amp receptacles put in that garage? If not was the saw modified for a 15 amp cord cap? A 16.8 amp tool should have had a 20 amp cord cap from the factory. Something seems fishy here.

No 20A plug on saw, thought the same as cord seemed a little light for the saw so did inquire, he said "someone" replaced the cord several years ago because it was all splitting. He said the saw has worked good for the last 30 yrs he's had it, and he never had a problem before. Told him that given the readings I got, the saw maybe just wearing out, given over 30 years old and no real maintenance, those brushes can start wearing out.
I'm assuming also there had to have been some other plug configuration as the motor has a simple switch to change from 120V to 240V, motor listed on nameplate as compatible on either.

As to your statement about knowledge and skill, alot have a hard time with that statement, they'll comment "That didn't take you long at all why you charging me?" But they had no idea how to fix that's why they called me in the first place.
But in this case their assumption I think is that it's the "work I did" months prior had to be at fault not what they are doing.

 

[sw_ross]

If I got a call like this I would’ve asked questions about the circumstances before driving there.
I would’ve assumed that the brick guy was overloading the circuit and recommended that they find another circuit that is 20-amp rated to use. I would do what I could to find a work-around over the phone before going to the jobsite.

Only after all that failed would I head to site for further evaluation.

Whether I charge or not would depend on how much of a PITA the situation turns into.

 

[Nuber]

No 20A plug on saw, thought the same as cord seemed a little light for the saw so did inquire, he said "someone" replaced the cord several years ago because it was all splitting. He said the saw has worked good for the last 30 yrs he's had it, and he never had a problem before. Told him that given the readings I got, the saw maybe just wearing out, given over 30 years old and no real maintenance, those brushes can start wearing out.
I'm assuming also there had to have been some other plug configuration as the motor has a simple switch to change from 120V to 240V, motor listed on nameplate as compatible on either.

I can see that possibility as the root of the issue. If you didn't have the specs of what was to be plugged in - didn't have the equipment on site when you did the work - then you were at a disadvantage and simply gave a quality, low cost install under the parameters you had to work with. I say this isn't your fault at all.

As to your statement about knowledge and skill, a lot have a hard time with that statement, they'll comment "That didn't take you long at all why you charging me?" But they had no idea how to fix that's why they called me in the first place.

Even after decades of interacting with customers, there simply isn't one proper way to handle every situation. I wasn't there, my advice might not work for you. Generally I charge for everything I do unless I failed to do it right or I am at fault - only then is it free. I suggest you do the same, but the choice is yours. There is without a doubt a moral component to contracting and some odd moments that transpire when money is to change hands. Some people genuinely think that if you just reset a breaker or just looked at something that you should not get paid. I disagree with those people - I am not running a charity. I am a licensed, bonded, educated, insured, mobile service that costs a lot of money to get to your house. I need to get paid or I am out of business. Nothing personal about it.

But in this case their assumption I think is that it's the "work I did" months prior had to be at fault not what they are doing.

As I referenced - you could make the call to give up a freebee. Post 2 and 3 were awesome in describing some reasoning for that. Call it advertising if you will.

An analogy - buy a 1/2 ton pickup from a dealer. Put 1 ton of rock in it. Return the truck to the dealer claiming it was broken. Watch the dealer laugh at you. Your customer did the same thing - they overloaded the circuit by using something in a manner it should not have been. The changed out cord cap (and whoever did that) is the culprit here - not you. Why do you have to cover the cost of someone else's mistake?

Answer 1 - you don't, charge for it.
Answer 2 - it was a callback, you explained it wasn't your fault, make it a no charge issue and hope it pays dividends down the road.

I have done both, I lean toward answer 1.

 

[James L]

Now if post 2 or 3 conditions are important, then we can make it a no call service charge after the fact - and we do at times. There is nothing wrong with professional courtesy for friends, family, or quality associates. Consider it as advertising.

I do this kind of stuff for two of my contractors, because they know how to run a job and they make it very easy for me to do my work and maximize my income from them. And they don't run me ragged with nonsense calls.

But with most of the others, my knee-jerk response is that is not my job. Nothing wrong with what I did, and they need to look elsewhere for the solution. Those are the guys who seem to live in a perpetual state of problems that affect my bottom line at every turn

 

[480sparky]

If it appears it's going to be a one-of call, I'd charge for it.

If it's a regular customer, or there's a reasonable chance of future work coming from it, then I'd probably not charge them for the trip, but certainly work it into future work.

 

[Nuber]

I do this kind of stuff for two of my contractors, because they know how to run a job and they make it very easy for me to do my work and maximize my income from them. And they don't run me ragged with nonsense calls.

But with most of the others, my knee-jerk response is that is not my job. Nothing wrong with what I did, and they need to look elsewhere for the solution. Those are the guys who seem to live in a perpetual state of problems that affect my bottom line at every turn

In my experience most humans seem to learn best under one of 4 conditions (or mix and match at will) -

1. Loss of their own blood
2. Loss of their own sweat
3. Loss of their own tears
4. Loss of their own money

The wisest amongst us learn absent the above conditions; I aspire to be so but frequently fail.

 

[hillbilly1]

Probably severe voltage drop, see that a lot on houses wired in #14. Many a time I’ve had to move the carpenters air compressors closer to the panel. They wouldn’t even start, and if they did, it would trip the breaker unless it was close to the panel. 60-70’ of #14 plugged into a 50-100’ #16 or #14 drop cord.

 

[zbang]

I changed out a breaker box on a few months back

So it wasn't work done in the last week and has probably been OK until the brick-saw came along and Fred doesn't mention low long the troubleshooting took nor the travel time. If the total time was under maybe two hours, I'd probably wave it away, but for anything bigger they'res probably a charge and a conversation with the foreman about why.

 

[LarryFine]

I'm assuming also there had to have been some other plug configuration as the motor has a simple switch to change from 120V to 240V, motor listed on nameplate as compatible on either.

Maybe the motor should be re-connected for 240v and the compressor be supplemented with a coupe of dryer plug adapters.

 

[Eddie702]

Depends on their attitude.

If there pushing the "you did something wrong when you changed the panel" then they would get a bill that would rattle their teeth. They couldn't fix it so they called you and you fixed it.

On the other hand if they appreciate what you did and apoligize (sort of) for calling you out for their bad saw then maybe let it slide only if you are pretty sure you will get further work.

And if you do get more work ad this bill to it anyhow

Let them think their getting a freebie

 

[romex jockey]

But in this case their assumption I think is that it's the "work I did" months prior had to be at fault not what they are doing.

Unfortunately ,afci's have proven to be a sensitive device

They can not withstand the constant inrush of motorized tools

Especially over what may be months of time for multiple trades on a job

Ergo, many of us , when possible, provide normal circuitry for the job duration

~RJ~