Chicago Fires

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Kilmarnock, Va
Occupation
Retired after 52 years in the trade.
On Chicago:

I think the reason for the Change EMT requirement for residential wiring is to minimize the chance of fire, though (walking the line carefully), I have heard (no substantiation just conjecture) the Union strongly opposes any changes to this rule.

My question is what percentages of residential fires are directly related to the wiring method, and not some homeowner using 20 amp fuses in lieu of 15 amp fuses (or the preverbal penny), the electrician?s nightmare, (the spider web approach to wiring 2-3 ways adaptors with 6 cords ran under the rug), space heaters ect?

I am not against preventing fires just curious if the number of residential fires is truly limited, with EMT.

Besides wasn't the Chicago fire started by a Mrs O'leary's cow kicking over a lantern not a incasdent lamp?
 
The fire's origin

The fire started at about 9 p.m. on Sunday, October 8, in or around a small shed that bordered the alley behind 137 De Koven Street. The traditional account of the origin of the fire is that it was started by a cow kicking over a lantern in the barn owned by Patrick and Catherine O'Leary, but Michael Ahern, the Chicago Tribune reporter who created the cow story, admitted in 1893 that he had made it up because he thought it would make colorful copy.

It was aided by the city's overuse of wood for building, the strong northwesterly winds, and a drought before the fire. The city also made fatal errors by not reacting soon enough and citizens by not caring about the fire when it began. The firefighters were also tired from fighting a fire that happened the day before.
 
Not an electrical issue (directly) but connected.

Stick: That leads to another problem (all wood) in our area they are building these massive 3 and 4 story garden apartments all wood, fire walls are sheetrock/drywall, vinyl sidingl.

When I wired apartments in the 70's they were all brick and block (firewalls), metal stud with drywall interior. The roofs were wood trusses or flat roof concrete. They still had fires in these projects.

Now I know the new projects have sprinklers and sheetrock is for fire rated walls, but still seems questionable to me.

Last note some of the early garden projects built in the 40's are still in use (after remodling), I just don't think these large wood structures can last 50-60 years.
 
The former Chicago Chief Electrical Inspector submitted this comment to CMP2.
In Chicago for the past 50 plus years 100% of legally constructed dwelling type structures have used metal raceway and metal boxes as the wiring method for the fixed wiring in dwellings. I have attached substantiation in the form of NIFRS Data that compares Chicago vs National residential electrical fires. The data shows that Chicago, which uses metal raceway exclusively for dwelling occupancies, has (4) times fewer residential electrical fires as a percentage of total residential fires, than found nationally. Moreover, there are nearly (3) times fewer fires caused by the distribution which includes the fixed or installed wiring.
Click to expand...

Don
 
Elecrical fire deahts

Elecrical fire deahts

How many people die in home fires in the United States each year?

1. 1,100
2. less than 600
3. about 3,300


guess the answser is c
 
From the US Fire Administration.
The Overall Fire Picture - 2005

  • There were 3,675 civilians that lost their lives as the result of fire.
  • There were 17,925 civilian injuries that occurred as the result of fire.
  • There were 115 firefighters killed while on duty.
  • Fire killed more Americans than all natural disasters combined.
  • 83 percent of all civilian fire deaths occurred in residences.
  • 1.6 million fires were reported. Many others went unreported, causing additional injuries and property loss.
  • Direct property loss due to fires was estimated at $10.7 billion.
  • An estimated 31,500 intentionally set structure fires resulted in 315 civilian deaths.
  • Intentionally set structure fires resulted in an estimated $664 million in property damage.
Click to expand...
 
I doubt very highly that faults in premises wiring are the cause of many fires in dwelling units. I believe the vast majority of so called "electrical fires" are from improper use of extension cords, electric space heaters, and other electrical appliances.

I don't doubt that Chicago has a lower fire incidence rate, but what are they comparing the numbers to? They aren't comparing it to anything as true numbers of actual fires started by premises wiring don't exist. So it's a meaningless comparison in my estimation.

Also, I believe the reason that Chicago _may_ have a lower incidence rate is that an metal raceway wiring system will almost always require a professional to install and modify. Cable type wiring systems are more DIY and hack friendly, and therefore easier to screw up, and presumably, cause fires.

A lot of fires in are not caused by the wiring itself, but by inadequate wiring (re:lack of receptacles) which in turn causes people to use extension cords.
 
Extension Cords & Power Strips
Improper use of easily overloaded, unapproved extension cords can present a serious fire safety hazard in the workplace. In fact, misuse of extension cords led to a significant fire in an Executive Branch office building in 1998.

According to the National Fire Protection Association, electrical distribution equipment, such as extension cords, was the second leading cause of fire deaths in the U.S. between 1994 and 1998. The most common cause of fires from extension cords is due to improper use and/or overloading, especially when cords have multiple outlets. Most extension cords are only rated for a maximum of ten amps or 1200 watts. Overloading can occur when multiple devices are plugged into one cord or when cords are ?daisy chained? (plugging multiple extension cords together).

The use of unapproved extension cords is a violation of both OSHA and National Fire Protection Association codes. The OSHA Code of Federal Regulations (29CFR1910.303 (a)) states that conductors and equipment are acceptable for use only if they are approved by recognized laboratories (such as Underwriters Laboratory, Factory Mutual, etc.). Approved extension cords are only allowable in the workplace as temporary wiring, and for no more than 90 days.

Fast Facts About Extension Cords and Power Strips
Approximate Damage Caused by Extension Cords Between 1994 and 1998*
# 6900 fires
# 91 civilian deaths and 421 civilian injuries
# $115.9 million in direct property dam age per year between 1994 and 1998
* Source: National Fire Protection Association

Inappropriate Use of Extension Cords
# Using as perm anent wiring
# Using unapproved extension cords
# Overloading power capabilities of the cord during temporary use
# Daisy chaining (plugging one extension cord into another and another, etc.)
# Using one surge protector/power strip to power another

Basic Guidelines for the Appropriate Use of Extension Cords
# Cords m ust be properly approved (by Underwriters Laboratory, etc.)
# Approved cords m ust be for tem porary use only (no m ore than 90 days)
# Extension cords m ay be used for remodeling and maintenance or repair of structures or equipment # It is perm issible to use extension cords to light holiday decorations
 
Residential Fire Causes

Cooking 26.4%
Heating 11.4%
Incendiary, Suspicious 5.7%
Open Flame, Ember, Torch 5.4%
Other Heat, Flame, Spark 4.1%
Exposure 2.6%
Smoking 2.1%
Appliances, A/C 1.9%
Natural 1.9%
Electrical Distribution 1.0%
Other Equipment 0.6%
Children Playing 0.4%
The above is from the US Fire Administration.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Electrical Distribution 1.0%
Click to expand...

OK, so there are "official" numbers of fires caused by premises wiring??

Interesting. I thought the AFCI manufacturers were throwing 40% around quite a bit. :roll: Now we have a number that is only 1%, which seems pretty reasonable. What a surprise that they would mislead us like that!
 
Peter,
I think that their number is ~40,000 dwelling unit electrical fires per year and they have stated that they think that AFCIs can prevent about 40% of the fires of electrical origin that occur on protected circuits.
Don
 
We all together have a great number of years cumulative.Be honest how many fires have you seen (other than some hack work cause a fire ??? )I think many fire marshalls seeing an area charred beyond the rest and centered around a receptacle blame it on electrical since the rest are just looking for an answer to close it out.We are easy targets since the majority of the world just knows.PLUG IT IN,PLUG IT IN.Sounds like that commercial doesn`t it :)
 
And how many of the saved homes from fire could have been done with a far cheaper gfci outlet with slaves.Having been on many fire jobs.Most were from lightning,overfused,extention cords,stupid things like candles or using a bbq grill inside closed garage with car and lawn mower (yes it happened) and hacks.Personally i still prefer emt but its cost might not justify the real cost.I think MC would be reasonable to demand and is safer than romex.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I think MC would be reasonable to demand and is safer than romex.
Click to expand...

No, that's not reasonable at all. What is reasonable is to insist that the wiring method chosen is installed in a code compliant manner.
 
Peter,
No, that's not reasonable at all. What is reasonable is to insist that the wiring method chosen is installed in a code compliant manner.
Click to expand...
Given a code compliant intallations NM is safe, but in my opinion a metal clad cable or metal conduit is safer.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Peter,

Given a code compliant intallations NM is safe, but in my opinion a metal clad cable or metal conduit is safer.
Don
Click to expand...

I agree to an extent, but only because a metallic cable or raceway system is less likely to be installed or modified by a non-electrician. Specifically, what would you say is "safer" about metallic vs NM? Rodent resistance?

New England is "cable land." Most of our dwelling units, as well as many supermarkets, office building, hotels, and apartment buildings are wired with NM cable. I wouldn't consider them any less safe than ones wired with metallic methods, and they don't appear to be burning down faster either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top