Chinese raceway non-UL Listed

[gcmbbs]

We install class 2 DDC controls and have recently come across a competitor using make believe raceway including controls enclosures that are not UL Listed. The project specifications state controls must comply with DIV 16 specifications and NEC. This stuff looks like the real thing but it appears to be made of tin with a galv. coating. A couple of school districts, State of Florida tax payers and the Engineering community are being buffaloed by this installing contractor.
We feel this is a life safety issue and needs to be addressed but everyone believes we are creating noise about a competitor. Line voltage is also pulled into these non listed enclosures, we feel this endangers everyone.
Does the State of Florida require state contractors to use UL listed raceway so I can present this to those who feel we are just complaining? We even had one Electrical Engineer when we brought this to his attention indicate he has no problem with this product being used in walls as a sleeve??? From what I've read NEC does not allow one to substitute code just to save a buck. This Chinese raceway is just pretend stuff and may eventually cause someone to be serious hurt. We cannot find anyone who is an authority to stop this practice of using foreign pretend raceway.

 

[jumper]

Links to both products would help.

 

[brian john]

What type of raceways?

Links as noted.

 

[LEO2854]

We install class 2 DDC controls and have recently come across a competitor using make believe raceway including controls enclosures that are not UL Listed.what is the votage of the class controls wire??
ARTICLE 90.7NEC/page 70-23 that will lead you to other articles that TALKS ABOUT LISTING and labaling
The project specifications state controls must comply with DIV 16 specifications and NEC. This stuff looks like the real thing but it appears to be made of tin with a galv. coating. A couple of school districts, State of Florida tax payers and the Engineering community are being buffaloed by this installing contractor.

does the state of florida go by the 2008 NEC?
We feel this is a life safety issue and needs to be addressed but everyone believes we are creating noise about a competitor. Line voltage is also pulled into these non listed enclosures, we feel this endangers everyone.
Does the State of Florida require state contractors to use UL listed raceway so I can present this to those who feel we are just complaining? We even had one Electrical Engineer when we brought this to his attention indicate he has no problem with this product being used in walls as a sleeve??? From what I've read NEC does not allow one to substitute code just to save a buck. This Chinese raceway is just pretend stuff and may eventually cause someone to be serious hurt. We cannot find anyone who is an authority to stop this practice of using foreign pretend raceway.

What does the Electrical inpector have to say?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... We even had one Electrical Engineer when we brought this to his attention indicate he has no problem with this product being used in walls as a sleeve??? ...

As far as I know there are no NEC requirement as to what you can use as a sleeve. If the product is being used as a raceway, then all of the raceway articles in the NEC require the use of a listed product.

 

[roger]

Depending on the wiring method, does the control wiring need to be in a raceway in the first place?

Roger

 

[Jraef]

DDC would imply at it's surface that it may be limited energy, i.e. you don't need raceway at all if you use plenum rated cable, but that doesn't mean you can't use "make believe" raceway. However as soon as you pull line power through it, it DOES become "raceway" as per the NEC so the usual rules apply.

But in general, does the NEC ever "require" UL listing? As far as I know it does not. State and local codes may ammend the NEC to add NRTL listing requirements however. I don't live in Florida so I can't help there. But as always, the AHJ has the final say and if you can convince him it is an unsafe practice, he can disallow it.

 

[resistance]

But in general, does the NEC ever "require" UL listing? As far as I know it does not.

NEC does require it to be listed, or labeled.

 

[resistance]

Does not Say it has to be UL (The organization), but some recognized organization acceptable to the AHJ.

 

[resistance]

The poll question seems to indicate that--if we select one or the other, then we are asking a question.

 

[petersonra]

We install class 2 DDC controls and have recently come across a competitor using make believe raceway including controls enclosures that are not UL Listed.

Is UL listing some kind of requirement? There are other NRTLs that list things that are also acceptable, and not everything really needs to be listed in any case.

The project specifications state controls must comply with DIV 16 specifications and NEC.

The NEC does not require listing of everything. I don't know about Div 16.

This stuff looks like the real thing but it appears to be made of tin with a galv. coating.

Why would anyone make anything out of tin? Much cheaper to use light gauge sheet steel. And there would be no need to galvanize tin in any case. Your perhaps inadvertent mischaracterization of the product won't help your case any.

A couple of school districts, State of Florida tax payers and the Engineering community are being buffaloed by this installing contractor.
We feel this is a life safety issue and needs to be addressed but everyone believes we are creating noise about a competitor.

I don't see the life safety issue at all. And it does indeed appear to me this is mostly a beef about a competitor. Might be a legit beef, but a beef nonetheless.

Line voltage is also pulled into these non listed enclosures, we feel this endangers everyone.

On what basis do you think this to be the case?

Does the State of Florida require state contractors to use UL listed raceway so I can present this to those who feel we are just complaining? We even had one Electrical Engineer when we brought this to his attention indicate he has no problem with this product being used in walls as a sleeve???

There is a big difference between material being used as a sleeve and a raceway.

From what I've read NEC does not allow one to substitute code just to save a buck. This Chinese raceway is just pretend stuff and may eventually cause someone to be serious hurt. We cannot find anyone who is an authority to stop this practice of using foreign pretend raceway.

If it is not being used as a raceway, I don't get the beef at all.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Is UL listing some kind of requirement? There are other NRTLs that list things that are also acceptable, and not everything really needs to be listed in any case. ...

Bob,
I think that often UL is used as generic term for any NRTL...just like Cresent for an adjustable open end wrench.
And you are correct that not everything needs to be listed, but the NEC requires most if not all raceways to be listed.