Christmas Lights in NEC

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jabruce61

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This question was posted in an online town news letter.

Is there a timeline for removing exterior Christmas decorations?

Per the National Electrical Code, which the city adheres to, all exterior Christmas lighting must be taken down 90 days after the holiday. Code enforcement officers will be distributing reminders to residents who have not taken down their decorations as of Tuesday, March 23. If you have any questions, please contact the Building Department

Is this really in the NEC?
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Lockport, IL
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No it is not. But let us be clear. I can leave strings of holiday lights dangling from my gutters all year long, and the NEC will have nothing to say on the topic. What the NEC does say is this:
590.3(B) Temporary electric power and lighting installations shall be permitted for a period not to exceed 90 days for holiday decorative lighting and similar purposes.
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So what is the difference, and why did I say “no”? Because the NEC is about electric power. If I installed a temporary method of providing power to the lights that are dangling from my gutter, then that temporary power wiring method has a 90 day limit. For example, if I were to remove the light bulb from my flood light at the front of my house, screwed in an adapter, and plugged in an extension cord so that I could use the indoor switch to turn on and off the holiday lights, then I have to remove that extension cord within 90 days. But I don’t have to take down the lights themselves, because without power they are not within the scope of the NEC.

Let me put it another way. If I were to take down the light strings (which I did), and if I were to put them in a box in the garage (which I did), then they would not comprise a "lighting installation." They would be (and they are) just one more thing being stored in the garage, and the NEC would have nothing to say about them. Similarly, if I were to leave the light strings dangling from the gutter, but removed all sources of electric power, then they also would not comprise a "lighting installation." They would be just one more thing being left lying about the house, and the NEC would have nothing to say about them.
 
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Rockyd

Rockyd

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Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Must be new 'round these parts...

Gretchen Wilson knows you can leave the lights up -

See the song -

Redneck Woman

Cause I'm aredneck woman
And I ain't no high class broad
I'm just a product of my raisin'
And I say "hey y'all" and "Yee Haw"
And I keep my Christmas lights on, on my front porch all year long ...[:D]
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Rockyd said:
Must be new 'round these parts...

Gretchen Wilson knows you can leave the lights up -

See the song -

Redneck Woman

Cause I'm aredneck woman
And I ain't no high class broad
I'm just a product of my raisin'
And I say "hey y'all" and "Yee Haw"
And I keep my Christmas lights on, on my front porch all year long ...[:D]
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What inspector would give a HOT country girl like her a hard time ? What lights ? I just put them up yesterday.
 
L

LawnGuyLandSparky

Senior Member
U.L. also lists light strings for no more than 90 days on "display." However, I happen to have a collection manufactured in the 60's which specifically call them "Year 'round lights" and the boxes, original packaging and U.L. labels and listing to prove it.
 
iwire

iwire

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Massachusetts
charlie b said:
No it is not. But let us be clear. I can leave strings of holiday lights dangling from my gutters all year long, and the NEC will have nothing to say on the topic.
Click to expand...

Charlie and I disagree on this entirely.

I suggest you ask your AHJ, in my opinion the NEC does have something to say about it. 90 days and remove.

Now do I think an inspector will be kicking down your door checking? No.

But the NEC says what it says and says nothing about inspections or permits, that is a local issue.
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Location
Lockport, IL
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Retired Electrical Engineer
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
U.L. also lists light strings for no more than 90 days on "display."
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I wouldn't stake too much on that. If I wanted to leave the light strings on the gutter all year, then (1) They would not be visible (from the street) in the daylight, and (2) They would not be visible at all at night. So without a power source applied, I would say they were not "on display."
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Location
Lockport, IL
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Retired Electrical Engineer
iwire said:
Charlie and I disagree on this entirely.
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Not the first time, and not likely to be the last.
iwire said:
But the NEC says what it says . . . .
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Agreed. And I quoted what it says, in post #2.

I submit that a string of lights that has no power source is not within the scope of the NEC. I could buy a box of holiday lights, and without taking them out of the box, give the box the old heave ho, toss the box onto my roof, and let it stay there, and I will not have opened the door to any NEC requirement. The light string is “utilization equipment,” it is not wiring means and methods. Unless and until you provide a power source for utilization equipment, the NEC is not a player. I have a hard-plastic shed in my back yard. There are no wires on, in, or near that shed. I store an electric leaf blower on the wall of that shed. The fact that there is an item of utilization equipment in the shed does not bring about the requirement to GFCI protect a non-existent receptacle. I see it simply this way: “No electricity – No NEC.”
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

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Location
Simi Valley, CA
I would have to agree with Charlie, once you unplug them I don't care anymore, now you may have an HOA or a planning department to contend with.

And Gretchen can keep hers up if she wants. :grin:
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I will gladly come inspect gretchen lights for free.

Really i think the reason behind 90 days is to insure they get inspected for damage. Have never known anyone to get red tag from it.
 
tkb

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
iwire said:
Charlie and I disagree on this entirely.

I suggest you ask your AHJ, in my opinion the NEC does have something to say about it. 90 days and remove.

Now do I think an inspector will be kicking down your door checking? No.

But the NEC says what it says and says nothing about inspections or permits, that is a local issue.
Click to expand...

So if the NEC governs the light fixtures, can landscaping contractors install "Holiday Lighting"?
I pass a landscaping contractors yard every day and one of his signs advertise "Holiday Lighting"

In MA, do you heed a license and a permit to install lighting that gets plugged in?
 
iwire

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
tkb said:
So if the NEC governs the light fixtures, can landscaping contractors install "Holiday Lighting"?
I pass a landscaping contractors yard every day and one of his signs advertise "Holiday Lighting"

In MA, do you heed a license and a permit to install lighting that gets plugged in?
Click to expand...

The NEC has absolutely nothing to do with permits and inspections and what requires a licenses to do.

Just because an item may be covered by the NEC does not mean a permit, license or inspection is required.

The NEC applies to many items that plug in. Window shaker air conditioners, irons, vending machines etc.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
charlie b said:
No it is not. But let us be clear. I can leave strings of holiday lights dangling from my gutters all year long, and the NEC will have nothing to say on the topic. What the NEC does say is this:So what is the difference, and why did I say ?no?? Because the NEC is about electric power. If I installed a temporary method of providing power to the lights that are dangling from my gutter, then that temporary power wiring method has a 90 day limit. For example, if I were to remove the light bulb from my flood light at the front of my house, screwed in an adapter, and plugged in an extension cord so that I could use the indoor switch to turn on and off the holiday lights, then I have to remove that extension cord within 90 days. But I don?t have to take down the lights themselves, because without power they are not within the scope of the NEC.

Let me put it another way. If I were to take down the light strings (which I did), and if I were to put them in a box in the garage (which I did), then they would not comprise a "lighting installation." They would be (and they are) just one more thing being stored in the garage, and the NEC would have nothing to say about them. Similarly, if I were to leave the light strings dangling from the gutter, but removed all sources of electric power, then they also would not comprise a "lighting installation." They would be just one more thing being left lying about the house, and the NEC would have nothing to say about them.
Click to expand...

I see a loophole. If they stay up then they are not temporary are they ? And they plug in so nec has no section to cover them.
 
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