Circuit drawing 3 way please comment

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Twoskinsoneman

Twoskinsoneman

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Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
I know the draw is crude but a recent thread got me thinking about running travelers like this and I thought I would try to get a little clarification on it. As far as I can tell in every cable/raceway I've got equal EMF canceling out. Anyway does this violate any codes?

Thanks all
OUTB.jpg
 
I see no problem with it. Only one traveler at a time can be energized, and if the light is on, the load on the traveler would equal the additional load on the neutral.

But you aren't disconnecting the power source with your two-pole switch.
 
You would have to group the 3 way switch and the 2 pole disconnect switch together to meet the requirements in 225.34(A).

Chris
 
raider1 said:
You would have to group the 3 way switch and the 2 pole disconnect switch together to meet the requirements in 225.34(A).

Chris
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Either that, or pick up the common for the 'other building' 3-way after the 2-pole switch, and send it back to the house over the travellers, and the switch leg would require another conductor back out.
 
480sparky said:
Either that, or pick up the common for the 'other building' 3-way after the 2-pole switch, and send it back to the house over the travellers, and the switch leg would require another conductor back out.
Click to expand...

Sorry I guess I'm draggin after a crap day but what are you saying?

"pick up the common for the 'other building' 3-way after the 2-pole switch"

The three way is switching the hot... honestly sorry don't get it.

It's a lot to ask but can you whip a sketch to help. I haven't even been through but 1/3 a bottle of Jager and I'm still not seeing what our saying.

Thank you.
 
raider1 said:
You would have to group the 3 way switch and the 2 pole disconnect switch together to meet the requirements in 225.34(A).
Click to expand...
225.36 permits the threeway to work as the disconnect.

Twoskinsoneman,

The the bottom of the two pole switch in the "other building", load side looks like it is connected to the "other building" neutral. . . . just a little error.

Nice drawing.
 
What's the purpose of the 2p Snap switch in the other building anyway?
 
al hildenbrand said:
225.36 permits the threeway to work as the disconnect.

Twoskinsoneman,

The the bottom of the two pole switch in the "other building", load side looks like it is connected to the "other building" neutral. . . . just a little error.

Nice drawing.
Click to expand...

I agree that a 3 way switch can be used as a disconnecting means, but in the configuration that is drawn, the 3 way switch would be a second disconnecting means because there is also a 2 pole switch that disconnects the ungrounded and the grounded conductor feeding the building.

Chris
 
al hildenbrand said:
225.36 permits the threeway to work as the disconnect.

Twoskinsoneman,

The the bottom of the two pole switch in the "other building", load side looks like it is connected to the "other building" neutral. . . . just a little error.

Nice drawing.
Click to expand...
Just a bad drawing the second line crosses over the grounded conductor to the bottom recep.

jap said:
What's the purpose of the 2p Snap switch in the other building anyway?
Click to expand...

I guess 225.31 drove me to put it there... If it is unneeded then please enlighten me. I'm here to learn
 
al hildenbrand said:
225.36 permits the threeway to work as the disconnect.

Twoskinsoneman,

The the bottom of the two pole switch in the "other building", load side looks like it is connected to the "other building" neutral. . . . just a little error.

Nice drawing.
Click to expand...

The drawing is bad. I threw it together in AutoCad and when I copied to "Paint" then photobucket then here I was embarrassed about how crappy it looked.
 
I dont think you can consider the 3 way a disconnect. If the Light was off in the "Other Building" and you were working on the Lighting Circuit, someone could flip the 3 way in the main building and you would witness the result.
 
raider1 said:
I agree that a 3 way switch can be used as a disconnecting means, but in the configuration that is drawn, the 3 way switch would be a second disconnecting means because there is also a 2 pole switch that disconnects the ungrounded and the grounded conductor feeding the building.

Chris
Click to expand...
I guess the real idea of "grouping" is what you would accept. One of course can immediately think of a two gang box with the switches under one cover plate. . .

But if I were installing this, I'd be inclined to do the install as drawn, with the 2-pole switch just below the threeway, say maybe two feet below, and in a location that is highly unlikely to be covered up by shelves or contents. My first favorite spot is beside the service door frame. I feel this satisfies "grouping", yet is a little more user friendly for the average HO who would be annoyed to have to figure out why all the outlets went dead.
 
jap said:
I dont think you can consider the 3 way a disconnect. If the Light was off in the "Other Building" and you were working on the Lighting Circuit, someone could flip the 3 way in the main building and you would witness the result.
Click to expand...
Read 225.36 Exception.
225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment.
The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.
Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.
Click to expand...
If the light is switched off by the threeway, the light is disconnected.
 
Dont tell me you all think this is a satisfactory means of disconnect, seeing as how someone could flip the 3 way in the main building and energize the circuit in the "Other Building" even though the light was off when you started working on it. Secondly the 2p Switch does not disconnect all the power in the "Other Building" because of the 3way.
 
Twoskinsoneman said:
Sorry I guess I'm draggin after a crap day but what are you saying?

"pick up the common for the 'other building' 3-way after the 2-pole switch"

The three way is switching the hot... honestly sorry don't get it.

It's a lot to ask but can you whip a sketch to help. I haven't even been through but 1/3 a bottle of Jager and I'm still not seeing what our saying.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Instead of energizing the 3-ways in the dwelling, they get their power from a point after the 2-pole disco switch. That way, there's no way to turn the light on if the disco is off.
 
480sparky said:
Instead of energizing the 3-ways in the dwelling, they get their power from a point after the 2-pole disco switch. That way, there's no way to turn the light on if the disco is off.
Click to expand...
That adds an additional wire in the conduit between the buildings.

I kinda like the ability to disconnect the outlets and yet still have light, that I don't have to set up, to see to work on them.

Nothing says the disconnects, when used, have to all be off for any one of them to be considered off.
 
jap said:
Dont tell me you all think this is a satisfactory means of disconnect, seeing as how someone could flip the 3 way in the main building and energize the circuit in the "Other Building" even though the light was off when you started working on it.
Click to expand...
:D
Maybe.

But it IS Code.

If one is worried, put a little tape over the switch in the house. :roll:

:smile:
 
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