Circuit Neutrals on Eqpt Ground Bar

[andrewdbis]

Today I inspected a home with a service panel that has several neutral wires from various circuits terminating on the equipment grounding bar which is directly bonded to the panel enclosure. The floating neutral bar has several open spots for wires that are unused. I'm thinking this is a violation of 200.2 (B) but I wanted to get another opinion. Thanks!

 

[ptonsparky]

 

[LarryFine]

You're correct. Only GECs should be connected through the enclosure metal. All neutrals should be on the neutral bus.

 

[infinity]

I agree with Larry but I think that he meant EGC's.

 

[LarryFine]

You're correct. Only GECs should be connected through the enclosure metal. All neutrals should be on the neutral bus.

I agree with Larry but I think that he meant EGC's.

I did! I did! I meant EGCs!

 

[480sparky]

You basically have a panel that's been turned into a conductor.

 

[Beaches EE]

If this panel is not a subpanel then the neutral conductor really should be connected to that large lug at the top of the bar or the neutrals moved to neutral bar presumably on the opposite side of the panel.

 

[lb9452]

If the panel contains the service disconnect, neutrals are allowed to be landed with grounding conductors. As a matter of fact, the neutral bar is required to be bonded (connected) to the panel. This works to put everything at zero potential.


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[andrewdbis]

If the panel contains the service disconnect, neutrals are allowed to be landed with grounding conductors. As a matter of fact, the neutral bar is required to be bonded (connected) to the panel. This works to put everything at zero potential.


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The neutral bar is bonded to the panel. This isn't the neutral bar.

 

[infinity]

The neutral bar is bonded to the panel. This isn't the neutral bar.

I agree this is a EGC bar and neutrals are not permitted to be landed there since the only connection to the system neutral is through the metal cabinet.

 

[lb9452]

You’re correct. They are identical, so it makes no practical difference. There are tens of thousands of homes done with romex where the neutrals and grounds are landed together because there weren’t enough places to separate them. Safe. No violation.


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[tom baker]

You’re correct. They are identical, so it makes no practical difference. There are tens of thousands of homes done with romex where the neutrals and grounds are landed together because there weren’t enough places to separate them. Safe. No violation.


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Do you have a code reference for this being allowed?

 

[infinity]

You’re correct. They are identical, so it makes no practical difference. There are tens of thousands of homes done with romex where the neutrals and grounds are landed together because there weren’t enough places to separate them. Safe. No violation.

What about the code section from the OP 200.2(B)?

200.2(B) Continuity. The continuity of a grounded conductor shall not depend on a connection to a metallic enclosure, raceway,
or cable armor

 

[lb9452]

Well then the thousands of residential panel terminations would no longer be allowed, but would be “grandfathered “


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[DBoone]

This should be fun

 

[lb9452]

Do you have a code reference for this being allowed?

What was acceptable years ago, is probably excluded now by code.


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[texie]

You’re correct. They are identical, so it makes no practical difference. There are tens of thousands of homes done with romex where the neutrals and grounds are landed together because there weren’t enough places to separate them. Safe. No violation.


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In a panel that is also the service bonding point the neutral bar must have the neutrals landed on this neutral bar. Optionally the EGCs can also be connected to this neutral bar. If there is an optional EG bar installed it can NOT have any neutrals landed on it.

 

[lb9452]

Sounds like best practice to me. The code didn’t always make sense. Put your basement freezer on GFCI. Run a feeder to an out building, and bond the neutral when you get there.


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[infinity]

In a panel that is also the service bonding point the neutral bar must have the neutrals landed on this neutral bar. Optionally the EGCs can also be connected to this neutral bar. If there is an optional EG bar installed it can NOT have any neutrals landed on it.

I agree, what's shown in the photo was never code compliant.

 

[lb9452]

I agree, what's shown in the photo was never code compliant.

If you need the space, you could run a neutral matching the largest neutral on the ground bar to the neutral bar, giving you a copper conductor from ground bar to neutral bar. This should satisfy anyone but the inspector who only knows how to read the book


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