classification of building occupancy

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rick hart

rick hart

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Dallas Texas
If I had a separate 16000 sq/ft building that was intended to serve as a temporary housing for the family of patients staying in a hospital, what type of occupancy would you consider it to be? There are over 18 rooms for guests, provisions for 4 washers and dryers, double ranges, two 100 gallon storage water heaters and circ pump available for the guests to use.

In other words, is a Donald McRommell house a multi-family , hospital or a hotel?

Would the lighting and appliance demand factors used in calculating ranges, dryers and other appliances be taken from the houshold tables or the other than dwelling unit tables?

Opinions please. Thanks
 
Hi!!
Well seems that NEC 220.18 is for a dwelling, and permits to use Table 220.18(household Electric Clothe Dryers). I recommend you can use your calcs. as dwelling if "temporary residents" are going to be cooking, washing and drying clothes (ie very similar to a house(dwelling)):smile:
 
Rick, I think you might need to run this one past the AHJ. IMO, its a multi-family/hotel combo... kinda sorta. :D It sounds like it is some of each - multiple family setting, but temporary . Is it a communial setting?
 
It will work like a Motel 6 but with a large double kitchen and laundry. There is no telling how long the individuals will stay; it could be several weeks. By the same token, the kitchen and laundry will see demands for other than household usage since there are 18 families using the same facility.
I think it is more hotel than anything else but, the question I have is related to sizing a transformer for the entire building.

Do I calculate using hotel and non-dwelling unit demands or household demands?
 
rick hart said:
Do I calculate using hotel and non-dwelling unit demands or household demands?
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Well, I am not quite getting it, its about terminology, as I previously stated seems that dwelling is being taken as household. See for example, NEC 220.18, This beggings by saying "Electric Clothes Dryers-Dwelling Unit(s)" But if you read the next lines it tells you you can use table 220.18 ("Demand factors for HOUSEHOLD Clothe Dryers)

So I guess the final call is up to you. In my case I design "other than dwelling unit unit" when the kitchen is for a COMMERCIAL kitchen (i.e. restaurant, school dinning etc) Other than that no matter if it is a hotel or a house, or an apartment I take as dwelling and of course apply the demand factors for multifamily dwelling as needed and as required.

See NEC example D4(a) thru D5(a) (Annex D)
Regards:smile:
 
Sorry. my mistake again (haapens to me when I just jump on thing w/o reading twice)

Well, after re-reading your post. Seems that the kitchen and the laundry room is going to be shared by everybody (maybe I am so off, but here I go)

If this is the case, this will be very similar to a an apartment (or hotel) complex, where a central "community building" is shared by everybody in the complex.

Anything different than a Dwelling or Household building shall be calculated as "other than dwelling units". The rest of the complex where people is living or sleeping take it as dwelling (or hotel, or household) and you are welcome to use NEC Article220 as required for your design.
my 2-cents:smile:
 
Per the IBC, this would be an R-1 (transient housing). If the units themselves contain permanent provisions for cooking, they may be considered as dwelling units and must then comply with all applicable dwelling requirements.
If it has a community kitchen, this may come into some dispute as to whether or not it qualifies as a commercial kitchen or residential. The only difference in the NEC would be that ALL of the receptacles in the kitchen would be GFCI protected, not just the counter receptacles. Also, depending on how 'by the book' the local AHJ is, you may have a discussion on whether commercial appliances or domestic appliances should be used.
Sounds like fun!
Good luck.
 
classification

classification

I would consider your area a motel for obvious reasons. because temporary tenants will be occupying this space and are not familiar with means of egress, additional exit lighting and emergency lighting should be required, as well as life safety exit plaques ( this is were you are etc. ) your greatest responsibility here is egress in case of fire, additional smoke detectors may also be required. these things are not generally required in a permanent residence
 
mpd said:
the plans will say what use group it is?
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That is what has me questioning the way to calculate the load. What I got from the A/E appeared to be a single family calculation i.e. lighting demand, 2 small appliance circuits, laundry circuit, 4 ranges @ 17KW, appliance load @75% andf the elevator as the largest motor. The calculation for the 2 100 gallon electric water heaters, 4 washers and 4 dryers(unless the 1500W laundry circuit takes care of this) are no where to be found;who knows what else is missing. The sheet I have states 84 KVA for the entire service with 33KW being strip heat- my gut feeling is this is an error too.

This is neither fish nor fowl but I lean towards it being a hotel with other than dwelling unit demands for all appliances. I have to supply the 15KV transformer to this place but can't see 112.5KVA doing it like the A/E says. I am from the school that says that when an A/E goes against NEC, my job is to point it out and get them to sign off on the deviation.
 
When my daughter was sick with cancer, these types of buildings were just starting to appear. I stayed in one with her while she was going through her treatments.
These units are dwelling units. They are set up just like apartments.


I can also say...thank the Lord for them, as they made mine and my daughter's ordeal a little easier to deal with. We sort of lived like human beings during the trial and tribulation of the treatments with some privacy. I am sure this helped her to recover, and me to keep my sanity.
 
Pierre,
Glad to hear that this type of facility is effective for families and helped in your daughter's recovery.

So, in your opinion calculating this as a multifamily dwelling is the proper way of detremining the load?

How would you handle the single kitchen and laundry loads?
 
Rick
I misread the original post, I was focussed on my memory of what I dealt with.

These units are a little different, in that the families share a kitchen and laundry area.

I would contact the building department for more info.

Good Luck!
 
There is a fine line here between an R-1 and an R-2 (IBC). I think the important thing is to determine if the kitchen is to be treated as a commercial kitchen. If the dwelling units themselves do not have permanent provisions for cooking, they do not qualify, in the NEC, as dwelling units. This would be similar to a "Bed-and-Breakfast" or a dormitory. I would suggest that the calculations NOT be based on dwelling unit calcs, but on 'other than' dwelling units.
Use 220.14 for load calculations (particularly (J)), Table 220.42 for lighting loads (Hotels and motels without provisions for cooking), 220.56 for the kitchen equipment. There may be other articles which will apply, but I think you'll get the picture.
Good luck, it sounds like a worthwhile project.
 
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