Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

[bphgravity]

Classified Circuit Breakers

Manufacturer: Replaces:


Eaton (Cutler Hammer):

Square D Homeline
Crouse-Hinds MP
Siemens Q
GE THQ
Murray MP
Thomas and Betts TB

Thomas and Betts:

Westinghouse BR
Challenger C
GE THQL (GFCI only)
Murray MP
Siemens Q

Siemens:

Square D QO

Miami Breaker:

ITE (Molded-Case Versions)

Connecticut Electric and Switch:

Zinsco
Pushmatic
FPE Stablok
Wadsworth

[ February 06, 2006, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

Also, according to Eaton, "the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act prevents manufacturers from making warranties contingent upon the use of their replacement parts, as long as the third-party part is safe."

I have not reviewed this Act yet.

UL has idicated that these breakers are suitable for use as replacement breakers or in place of listed breakers. This makes it sound more like an either/or allowance verses requiring listed first and then classified only as replacement.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

As I understand it the "Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act" only applies if the end user purchases the product. If a contractor buys and installs the classified breaker, the panel manufacutrer can void the warranty.
Don

 

[Mike03a3]

Re: Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
As I understand it the "Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act" only applies if the end user purchases the product. If a contractor buys and installs the classified breaker, the panel manufacturer can void the warranty.
Don

The act applies to all, and only to, consumer products, so it would apply to a residential panel but not a commercial one. That said, it applies to the product, not who touched it in the supply chain. The panel warranty would not be effected by the use of a classified breaker, unless the breaker itself caused a problem with the panel or damaged it, or the parts were improperly installed by the distributor / installer.
If a classified breaker overheated and damaged a panel, your only recourse would be the breaker manufacturer. If their warranty is a limited warranty and expressly excludes collateral damage, then you are into a urinating contest to try to get them to pay for the panel. The panel maker would have no liability.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

Mike,
It doesn't cover products sold for resale, so unless the contractor is giving the customer the breaker for free, the breaker was sold for resale.
Don

 

[Mike03a3]

Re: Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Mike,
It doesn't cover products sold for resale, so unless the contractor is giving the customer the breaker for free, the breaker was sold for resale.
Don

I think you have perhaps misunderstood part of the definitions. The Act protects consumers of certain products. The definition of consumer excludes a person who buys the product for resale, but that in no way effects the warrantors obligations to the end user. Your breaker was sold to the contractor for resale, so he isnt't protected, but the product is still covered as far as the consumer is concerned.

If you are saying the contractor has no protection under the Act, you are correct. But the manufacturer of the panel still can't void the consumer's warranty because the contractor bought it for resale and installed a third party breaker. It's just that the person being protected is the end user, not the middle man.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

Any reports of these classified breakers blowing up or melting down??

They've been around for about five years now.

 

[pierre]

Re: Classified Breaker Manufacturers FYI

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.


In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.


While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things."


This might help a little for this discussion.

 

[kbsparky]

I want to bump this thread into the front of the line, and bring up a new point on the matter.

I have recently noticed that the ITE SIEMENS plug-in breakers now have an additional "notch" underneath that allows them to "fit" into the Square D Homeline panels.

Now on the surface it would seem that ITE SIEMENS wants their breakers to be able to be used on jobs that have existing Homeline panels.

My question is thus: Have they been "Classified" for use in the Homeline panels? Or are they just adding that extra notch to increase sales in the hope that contractors will just use them, without worrying about any listings and such? Many inspectors ignore the specific brand of the breakers used in any given panel, I've noticed.

It's interesting to note that when the Homeline panels and breakers were first introduced, the breakers would fit in many other panels, but none of the others would physically fit in the Homeline panel (due to the existence of that extra notch in the bus bar). But Square D did not bother to pay for the expense of testing and listing of their breakers for use in the others' panels?



And my final question is (repeating one heard in here earlier): Has ANYONE encountered a breaker that burned up a panel where the breaker was a different make than the panel? And been able to prove that it was the breaker's fault, and the same thing would not have occurred had the breaker been the same brand as the panel?

 

[jim dungar]

I believe Square D, since the introduction of Homeline, has always advised against using their breakers in any other manufacturer's panels.

 

[kbsparky]

Can the same thing be said for ITE SIEMENS?

It would appear just the opposite is true with their recent design change .... :?:

 

[bphgravity]

A "classified" breaker is easy to spot. It will be marked as a classified breaker. There are not any "dual-listed" breakers meaning both a listed and classified breaker all in one. Just because a breaker is interchangeable, it doesn't mean it is okay to use.

I am in the process of researching classified breaker failure reports and other incidents related to breakers used in other than their listed panelboard counterpart. I will be posting my results on this Forum.

 

[tonyi]

FWIW, Cutler Hammer also has some classified breakers in the QO form factor. Somewhere in storage I've got a box of 15A ones.