Clearance in front of disconnects ( Would OHSA cite us ? )

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Davebones

Senior Member
Location
North Of Tampa Fl
Have a row of Electrical disconnect's ( 7 - 30 amp 480V ) that feed various immersion heaters in process tanks in a Anodize room . Management seems to think that material on carts can be pushed up to the disconnect's as long as carts have wheels and can be pushed out of the way . I say OHSA can write us up for this for not maintaining the proper clearance . We are into lean and Kaizen and reducing the " FOOT PRINT " . This is starting to become a regular issue . Would like to get some opinions on this .... PS. Would also like to say thanks for the help every one gives on questions , I do appreciate it .
 
A matter of dispute here and elsewhere I am sure. I contend that nonfused disconnects do not require clearance, when you consider that a wall receptacle is a non fused disconnect, it bear s a little more weight. Regarding portable equipment you get in a greyer area. I still feel that for a disconnect it is OK, but I am not an AHJ. It would also depend on the typical use of the disconnect to me. Others may give you positive (or negative) answers, but it is subject to interpretation no matter how sure someone here is.


That is just my opinion. I could be right.
 
We have some of the issues here as well. I make them move the carts, trash barrels, etc. I don't see any exemption for items on wheels.

1910.303(g)(1)
Space about electric equipment. Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.

and depending on how long that "cart" could stay there:

1910.303(g)(1)(ii)
Working space required by this standard may not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be suitably guarded.
 
I ran into this issue in a computer room once ....

I said 'we need clearance.' They replied "it's all on wheels, so you can make the working space you need.'

The fault in that logic became clear a few months later. By then, the cabinets were stuffed full of gear and had all manner of cables dropping to them. Sure, they could move- if you had a forklift, and didn't care about tearing the cables. This was especially true of the UPS battery cart - that thing was HEAVY.

We've also seen countless 'electrical rooms' stuffed with the janitors' stuff. Funny how this never happens in the elevator room!

It's bad enough that a pushcart gets parked out of the way ... but to deliberately plan on filling the space with "portable" gear is, IMO, a violation. The space is needed to service the equipment, and your job is to service the equipment NOW - not after twenty minutes of shuffling stuff around. Besides- where will the stuff go? Into aisles, etc .... making the job a never-ending moving day.

Bad design, poor management, and definitely not 'kaizen.' Code trumps any 'feel-good' management fad.

"Kaizen," btw., described a process of continuous improvement. What you describe is not an improvement. It's quite the opposite.

I'd document the issue as: "IMO, as a licensed and qualified trade professional, the storage or staging of anything within the 'working space' is a violation of the NEC. Such a practice is directly contrary to the Federal mandate, as described in the OSHA statute (CFR 2910) that the employer provide a safe working environment. Please note that penalties for violations are determined, in part, by whether the violation was a deliberate decision on the part of the employer."
 
Strathead said:
A matter of dispute here and elsewhere I am sure. I contend that nonfused disconnects do not require clearance, when you consider that a wall receptacle is a non fused disconnect, it bear s a little more weight. Regarding portable equipment you get in a greyer area. I still feel that for a disconnect it is OK, but I am not an AHJ. It would also depend on the typical use of the disconnect to me. Others may give you positive (or negative) answers, but it is subject to interpretation no matter how sure someone here is.


That is just my opinion. I could be right.
Click to expand...

As an inspector I have always gone along with this thinking too.
 
Code, no code, OHSA, no OSHA,,,,,


What if you have to pull the disco open in an emergency? You wanna have to move and/or trip over carts?


The Triangle Shirtwaist Company was to code too, and a couple hundred girls got burned up or jumped to their deaths there.
 
Last edited:
jim dungar said:
I am pretty sure there was no code that allowed the doors to be chained shut.
Click to expand...



Block and Harris were cleared of any wrongdoing in court


BTW, just a few years ago I saw Walmart doing just that at the Franklin Mills store in Philly. They chained the doors shut to keep the night shift from stealing
 
Last edited:
Joethemechanic said:
BTW, just a few years ago I saw Walmart doing just that at the Franklin Mills store in Philly. They chained the doors shut to keep the night shift from stealing
Click to expand...
I have never seen anything stating Walmart prevented the use of the fire/emergency exits. Yes they threatened disciplinary action, if these were used, like just about every manufacturing plant I go into these days.

But exit doors and disconnects are two different things. There are several places in the NEC that acknowledge a difference between 'accessible' and 'readily accessible'. I feel working space does not need to be permanent.
 
I think the answer is unclear. To me, the word 'storage" implies something might be present for an extended or even indefinite period of time.

Something passing thru is a different story, otherwise people would be prohibited from walking in the working space.

I think part of the answer lies in answering the question "Does this need to be worked on live"?
 
cowboyjwc said:
As an inspector I have always gone along with this thinking too.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I was beginning to feel ganged up on. It is refreshing for a member of your qualifications to chime in. When stuff needs to be worked on, a little inconvenience is irritating, but such is life. Disconnects, and for that matter breakers, are not provided as a means of emergency shut off and as such requiring immediate access. As long as items can be safely moved to provide safe required clearances, then the code should be satisfied. I know the area in front of my panel at home is not ALWAYS clear. I would, however, encourage any facility to establish clear space around panels and disconnects, just not require it in the code.
 
There is a different between an electrical inspector for the city and a OSHA inspector. A OSHA inspector most likely will not interpret the rules the same as a city inspector.

I am willing to bet an OSHA inspector would find it to be a violation, but that would depend on the situation. What if this cart weighs hundreds of pounds and took two people to move?

Better housekeeping practices would elleviate the need to store a cart in this area.
 
Strathead said:
Thank you. I was beginning to feel ganged up on. It is refreshing for a member of your qualifications to chime in. When stuff needs to be worked on, a little inconvenience is irritating, but such is life. Disconnects, and for that matter breakers, are not provided as a means of emergency shut off and as such requiring immediate access. As long as items can be safely moved to provide safe required clearances, then the code should be satisfied. I know the area in front of my panel at home is not ALWAYS clear. I would, however, encourage any facility to establish clear space around panels and disconnects, just not require it in the code.
Click to expand...

Well I know how you feel, I've been beat down on this one too. I will say this though, I am a stickler for clearance in front of a panel, 2'11" is not good enough. Now that being said, I go into many facilities where the electrical room looks like a storage shed.
 
jim dungar said:
I have never seen anything stating Walmart prevented the use of the fire/emergency exits.
Click to expand...

No silly, they don't put in writing OSHA violations. They just tell the poor worker in person the doors chained shut and to keep their mouths shut or else, no job. Try opening a Walmart emergency exit days after it snows, they plow against the doors. Not all of those places are at all safe in case of an emergency.

jim dungar said:
I feel working space does not need to be permanent.
Click to expand...

Yea, wheeled carts are ok, IMO, if there is room to slide it out of the way. Unlike a janitors cart that takes up the entire closet and you have to yank it out a very specific angle, becuase it's jammed in there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top