Clearspace in front of Panels

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brady.grant

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Layton, UT
As shown in model I created. I have a group of panels. These panels have 3ft clearance in front of them. My question is the Housekeeping Pad (step) that is underneath Panel #1 on the Left.
I consider this finished grade as it is permanent. The question is that if this step is a clear space violation.
I appreciate your response.
Note: These panels are low voltage ( 24 volts and under) control panels. They are supplied by a 110 volt 20 amp circuit.
Best Regards
CUP Panel view 1.jpgCUP Panel View 2.jpg
 
110.26 Condition 3 (b) Low Voltage. By special permission, smaller work spaces shall be permitted where all exposed live parts operate at not greater than 30 volts rms.
 
macmikeman said:
110.26 Condition 3 (b) Low Voltage. By special permission, smaller work spaces shall be permitted where all exposed live parts operate at not greater than 30 volts rms.
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm looking at a smaller work space. I am just seeing if there is justification that a permanent step (Change in finished floor) elevation change in front of a panel is considered an obstruction of the clear space. I can definitely see that a tripping hazard is justifiable here; however, I'm just trying to get it backed up with reference if that is the case. I'm in a room with Engineers, Inspectors, Owners, Foreman, Superintendents, etc and would like to feel confident in my answers.
 
(A)(3) contains what you are looking for.

"Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the front of the electrical equipment."

The housekeeping pad is associated with the equipment, but can not extend more then 6 inches into the work space.

Seen graphics before with housekeeping pad as an example for applying this - is just the opinion of whoever made that drawing - but I think you will find most will see it that way.
 
kwired said:
(A)(3) contains what you are looking for.

"Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the front of the electrical equipment."

The housekeeping pad is associated with the equipment, but can not extend more then 6 inches into the work space.

Seen graphics before with housekeeping pad as an example for applying this - is just the opinion of whoever made that drawing - but I think you will find most will see it that way.
Click to expand...


I think this guy has a good valid point. A concrete pad is not equipment. Very valid point. But...... now that it has been brought to light here, I bet there are fifty seven new requests for a code change based upon this new revelation getting typed up this very minute. I wonder who will win the race.
 
macmikeman said:
I think this guy has a good valid point. A concrete pad is not equipment. Very valid point. But...... now that it has been brought to light here, I bet there are fifty seven new requests for a code change based upon this new revelation getting typed up this very minute. I wonder who will win the race.
Click to expand...
No it probably isn't equipment, is still something that is in the workspace, and happens to be associated with the gear in most cases. I think the intent is to allow such housekeeping pads to fall under this allowance, though it possibly could use some tweaking on wording.
 
kwired said:
No it probably isn't equipment, is still something that is in the workspace, and happens to be associated with the gear in most cases. I think the intent is to allow such housekeeping pads to fall under this allowance, though it possibly could use some tweaking on wording.
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The other interpretation: It isn't in the workspace, it is the workspace.
 
(3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be clear
and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to a height of
2.0 m (61∕2 ft) or the height of the equipment, whichever is
greater. Within the height requirements of this section, other
equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and
is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be
permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the
front of the electrical equipment.
Click to expand...

I don't think a step is grade, floor, or platform. However, I do not think a housekeeping pad is a step. I think it is a platform.
 
kwired said:
(A)(3) contains what you are looking for.

"Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the front of the electrical equipment."

The housekeeping pad is associated with the equipment, but can not extend more then 6 inches into the work space.

Seen graphics before with housekeeping pad as an example for applying this - is just the opinion of whoever made that drawing - but I think you will find most will see it that way.
Click to expand...

I guess the question is that if the permanent concrete pad is considered finished Floor or Floor Grade. Since it is permanent and is made to stand on and walk around HVAC Equipment, I'm assuming that it is Finished Grade, since it will never change.
The House keeping pad is for associated equipment; however, I wouldn't consider a concrete pad or finished floor as "equipment" associated or not. It's a floor.
The panels can be safely worked on and maintained and tested with 3 feet of Clearance in front of them.
 
brady.grant said:
I guess the question is that if the permanent concrete pad is considered finished Floor or Floor Grade. Since it is permanent and is made to stand on and walk around HVAC Equipment, I'm assuming that it is Finished Grade, since it will never change.
The House keeping pad is for associated equipment; however, I wouldn't consider a concrete pad or finished floor as "equipment" associated or not. It's a floor.
The panels can be safely worked on and maintained and tested with 3 feet of Clearance in front of them.
Click to expand...
It could probably use some work on wording. Like I said I think the intent is to allow such housekeeping pads if they don't extend too far into the "workspace"

What if such pad extends to 18" out?

What if it gradually slopes to other grade instead of a step?

What if you only have a 1/4" variance in elevation of one section of floor vs another (concrete or not)?

How far can it extend into the workspace before it is a platform?

6 inches from equipment doesn't ordinarily cause a trip hazard for when you are working on the equipment - nobody stands that close.
 
macmikeman said:
I think this guy has a good valid point. A concrete pad is not equipment. Very valid point. But...... now that it has been brought to light here, I bet there are fifty seven new requests for a code change based upon this new revelation getting typed up this very minute. I wonder who will win the race.
Click to expand...
I submitted a PI on this issue for the 2020 code. The PI was to add an exception to permit the housekeeping pad to extend no more than 6" in front of the equipment.
 
kwired said:
(A)(3) contains what you are looking for.

"Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the front of the electrical equipment."

The housekeeping pad is associated with the equipment, but can not extend more then 6 inches into the work space.

Seen graphics before with housekeeping pad as an example for applying this - is just the opinion of whoever made that drawing - but I think you will find most will see it that way.
Click to expand...

(A)(3) is more to do with other equipment such as J-Boxes, Gutters, Disconnects, Etc. They can be mounted above or below panels; however, this section of the code limits that the J-box, Gutters, "Associated Equipment" can't extend any further than 6" into the Clear space of the panel. According to the NEC Handbook explanation under (A)(3)

I can't find any code reference that states that a concrete pad (floor elevation change), weather it's a step or a gradual floor grade change such as a slope, is an obstruction into a Panel Clearspace. If panels were mounted on the exterior of a building and the grade of the ground was sloped, the clear space requirement for height under (A)(3) says that it shall extend from the grade, floor, or platform to a height of 2.0m (6-1/2 ft) or the height of the equipment, whichever is greater. If the grade can change and accommodate a clear space, why can't a step? (See original attached picture)
 
brady.grant said:
(A)(3) is more to do with other equipment such as J-Boxes, Gutters, Disconnects, Etc. They can be mounted above or below panels; however, this section of the code limits that the J-box, Gutters, "Associated Equipment" can't extend any further than 6" into the Clear space of the panel. According to the NEC Handbook explanation under (A)(3)

I can't find any code reference that states that a concrete pad (floor elevation change), weather it's a step or a gradual floor grade change such as a slope, is an obstruction into a Panel Clearspace. If panels were mounted on the exterior of a building and the grade of the ground was sloped, the clear space requirement for height under (A)(3) says that it shall extend from the grade, floor, or platform to a height of 2.0m (6-1/2 ft) or the height of the equipment, whichever is greater. If the grade can change and accommodate a clear space, why can't a step? (See original attached picture)
Click to expand...

First thing is the handbook is nothing more then the author's opinion - none of the commentary in that book is in any way an official interpretation by NFPA, this leaves it sort of like Mike Holt's published materials or anyone else that does that kind of thing, except they also do have complete copy of NFPA 70 printed alongside their commentary.

I honestly don't know what to call the housekeeping pad. Maybe it isn't equipment - I think it is still associated and similar enough they should include it for the kind of thing that is allowed to have limited existence in the work space.

A step is essentially a change in platform height. Question is how much elevation change should be allowed before calling it a different platform? 6", 2", .25", 18"??

In strictest enforcement and assuming this 'step' isn't allowed in the working space - that housekeeping pad needs to extend at least as far as the required workspace.

Now what if you intended to make the housekeeping pad flush with front of gear but someone didn't get concrete form right and it is maybe 1/2 beyond front of gear? Not really hurting anything yet if one is very strict on interpretation it may be non compliant.

What if the pad were something similar to fiberglass boxes that POCO's use for base under padmount transformers.
Sort of serving same purpose yet more likely to be seen as "equipment".
 
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