closed Thread: Residential 2 wire recptacles cold water pipe again

[wyreman]

Executive summary:
replacing two wire residential outlets and conforming to current grounding regs requires getting an approved conductor back to the GEC
What is acceptable for a conductor and clamping method?
Cold water pipes further than 5' from the entrance are not acceptable
so it must be a nearby panel or some EMT
What's the bonding method? Can this really still just be a bare #14 going to a clamp?


I'm sorry. I still don't get it.

If you have two wires to an old outlet
I thought you could replace that with a GFI outlet - either for the three prongs or just for a new outlet.
Inspector in this jurisdiction will apparently not accept a gfi outlet, rather
Inspector requires grounding at the outlet.

It looks like I will get a nmc back to a subpanel. that's fine.

Just don't understand.
He quotes
Correct the ungrounded or open-ground condition in the bathroom receptacle wiring (SFEC Section 89.116, 89.126 and 406.3)
I don't even find a section 406.3
The other sections are talking about grandfather.
This is K&T here... oh well...

 

[GoldDigger]

There is a section in the NEC specifically dealing with replacing ungrounded receptacles. If you could find tamper resistant two wire receptacles you could even use those.
Either a local amendment or shirt pocket rules seem to be involved. SFEC = San Francisco Electrical Code? That sounds local to me and SF has been paranoid ever since the 1906 earthquake. Well maybe not paranoid.
"If as some say God scourged the town
For being over frisky,
Why did he burn the churches down
And spare Hotaling's Whiskey?"

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[GoldDigger]

Duplicate....

 

[wyreman]

hihi:lol:

 

[augie47]

I would imagine the 406.3 reference is for NEC 406.3 which also reference NEC 250.130(C) for replacement receptacles.
I have no input for the SF requirements.

 

[wyreman]

The part I'm not clear on is

if you were going to bring a green #14 to an old box
Can you just land it in a subpanel and walk the bare wire over to the box and use that as your ECG?
It just doesn't look robust enough.

I know it wont be disturbed in the wall but it looks a little weak.
See it all the time, usually to the old cold water pipe.

 

[augie47]

Such an install would only be allowed for replacement or extensions as noted in 250.130.
I think at one time, many Codes ago, it was allowed to attache to the cold water pipe at any point so you may see that on some older installations.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Add an EGC back to the panel where the circuit originates then install a TR AFCI receptacle.

No GFCI required then.

 

[wyreman]

What kind of EGC...bare #12 ?
If we are going back to the panel, why not pull a romex?

 

[GoldDigger]

If you can pull NM over the same path you would use for the EGC, that would be good, but marginally more expensive.

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[wyreman]

Can you really run a bare #12?
Just clamp it to the nearest emt?
doesnt that look really like "that '70's show"

 

[jxofaltrds]

Can you really run a bare #12?
Just clamp it to the nearest emt?
doesnt that look really like "that '70's show"

No.

 

[wyreman]

ed Sullivan show


In belief, man can do anything

 

[wyreman]

At least he didn't go for the bright copper! Lower impedance path than the emt...


In belief, man can do anything