closet lighting, I failed inspection

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Stevenfyeager

Senior Member
Location
United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
Normally, I place a 6" recessed light in bedroom closet ceilings, hugging the closet door wall and have been passing inspections for clearances. But today an inspection failed. I could not be there and so I don't know the NEC paragraph he quoted the owner on the phone. He quoted a code violation to the owner. He said need to change them to plastic boxes for surface mounted lights. I do recall a couple being not "tight" to the door wall because of joist locations. He said at least 18 1/2 " is nec clearance from back wall.
 
410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
(A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Only luminaires of the
following types shall be permitted in a closet:
(1) Surface-mounted or recessed incandescent or LED luminaires with completely enclosed light sources
(2) Surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaires
(3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identi‐ fied as suitable for installation within the closet storage
space
(B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.
(C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a closet stor‐ age space shall be as follows:
(1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling.
(2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent lumin‐ aires installed on the wall above the door or on the ceil‐ ing.
(3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED lumin‐ aires with a completely enclosed light source installed in the wall or the ceiling.
4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires instal‐ led in the wall or the ceiling.
(5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall be permitted to be installed within the closet storage space where identified for this use
 
Also in your measurement you have to use minimum 12” for shelf ( even if shelf is smaller). Maybe that was part of the issue?
 
I've failed with an LED enclosed trim.

Reasoning: when that trim goes out someone could put a bulb in.
 
Another C10 said:
I love those arguments Inspectors give us, yeah and if a consumer puts in a 150 w bulb in a 60 w rated fixture .. I suppose that's our problem too ..
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Then every circuit breaker should fail as well... as the HO can take out the 15a AFCI/GFCI combo breaker, sell it on ebay, and put in a 20a regular breaker.
 
480sparky said:
Then every circuit breaker should fail as well... as the HO can take out the 15a AFCI/GFCI combo breaker, sell it on ebay, and put in a 20a regular breaker.
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Remember when code required tamperproof breakers in bolt in panels? Same logic, they figured no one could change to an incorrect breaker, but when the breaker failed , or the circuit was changed, you were SOL! That rule got changed rather quickly! LOL!
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Tell him he cannot inspect what if's. Someone would have to change the entire trim-- not likely and not his decision to make.
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I guess he was thinking take LED trim out and screw a bulb into the hanging socket with no trim.

What did pass is a regular bulb with one of those glass covered shower trims. So someone could remove that and be right where we were trying not to be.
 
hillbilly1 said:
It was in the 60’s or 70’s, The only one I seen that way was in a Tastee Freeze, irreversible screws. I know it wasn’t local code, because we didn’t have one. I remember the instructor at tech school talking about it.
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I doubt it was an NEC requirement. Otherwise, just about everyone who's been in the trade for any length of time would have run across a few. Maybe it was a builder/customer/corporate requirement.
 
Marshmo said:
I've failed with an LED enclosed trim.

Reasoning: when that trim goes out someone could put a bulb in.
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We can't deal with "IF'S" when it comes to Code requirements. As others have stated, IF we did that we could apply it to anything. Aside from that, I believe the INTENT of 410.16 is so that the installer doesn't install a key-less light fixture with an "A" bulb where someone could break the bulb while putting clothes in the closet. I've had surface mounted light fixtures with pull-chains pass inspection. The criteria was that the fixture had a globe over the bulb giving it protection from damage. However, IF we use the word IF, then someone could virtually break the globe at some point in time and never replace it. and we end up with the situation that we were looking to prevent.

In the case of a recessed light fixture, IF someone removed the LED trim and replaced it with std. bulb, the bulb is still recessed inside the can and AT LEAST SOMEWHAT protected from physical damage IMHO. Anyway, who is going to remove the LED trim ? They're rated for about 50K hours of operation.
 
Marshmo said:
I've failed with an LED enclosed trim.

Reasoning: when that trim goes out someone could put a bulb in.
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Recessed clearance is 6 inches either way, incandescent must be enclosed lamp type though. If you have a LED retrofit trim you are still in violation if you replace failed unit with an open trim, many will still reject open trim and LED with Edison base because it is too easy to replace with incandescent lamp even if code doesn't really address it specifically.
 
The inspector explained that the 6 " clearance from a 12 " shelf is what NEC requires so a 6 " can light won't fit. most clothes closets are 24 " and that encroaches too close to that clearance. He suggested replacing the can light with a 4 " plastic box with a flat LED 4 " light installed in the ceiling hugging tight to the door wall.
 
Stevenfyeager said:
The inspector explained that the 6 " clearance from a 12 " shelf is what NEC requires so a 6 " can light won't fit. most clothes closets are 24 " and that encroaches too close to that clearance. He suggested replacing the can light with a 4 " plastic box with a flat LED 4 " light installed in the ceiling hugging tight to the door wall.
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6" can is a nominal dimension for the most part and you may find some that are a little more and some that are a little less. Trims typically will be as much as 7", so I guess it depends if they want to measure to "any part of the luminaire" or just to the actual "can". Would have to check what code says, not sure how specific it is on this.

But then again unless you can get that can right next to the front wall you probably will be within 6 inches of the minimum 12 inch for shelf required if the closet is only 24" deep if your shelf is more than 12" then it definitely won't work at all.
 
With closets that small we usually tell the owners their to small for a light. If they insist on a light. We install a strip led light on the wall right above the door.
 
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