closet lighting issue

[pulliteasy]

Hi I have a question concerning closet lighting.
Are you allowed to use a pull chain type exposed bulb fixture in clothes closets? I was always taught to use the pull chain type globe fixtures to protect the bulb.Is this correct?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: closet lighting issue

Pulliteasy, welcome to the forum!

You are correct, see 410.8(C).

[ September 27, 2005, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[pulliteasy]

Re: closet lighting issue

Thanks alot for the welcome and the reply. I will make a copy and show it to our company's license holder lol. Who in fact only uses an outdated ugly book as a total guide, but will sit and argue code.Thanx

 

[Physis 2]

Re: closet lighting issue

By pulliteasy:

I was always taught to use the pull chain type globe fixtures to protect the bulb.Is this correct?

Hmm., No requirement for a pull chain that I'm aware of!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: closet lighting issue

"Thanks alot for the welcome and the reply. I will make a copy and show it to our company's license holder lol. Who in fact only uses an outdated ugly book as a total guide, but will sit and argue code.Thanx "
If he is not following nec i question just where are you working at.Your trying to learn so it might be better to look for a company that will teach you code.

 

[pulliteasy]

Re: closet lighting issue

Physis 2 Do you actually not understand what I am talking about? I guess what I should have said is When installing closet lighting in a residence is it an NEC violation to install an exposed bulb fixture or is the correct way to have a globe surrounding and protecting the bulb be it of the pull chain type or a switched type. Hope this will clear any confusion, thanx for your reply. no pun intended

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: closet lighting issue

Pulliteasy,

Welcome to the forum.

You'll find that there is a high value placed on precise language, here. That's what understanding the NEC hinges on. And there are some parts of the Code that this august community cannot agree on. Page back through the old topics and take a look at some of the really long ones for examples of ambiguity in the NEC.

When agreement is not possible, agreeing to disagree occurs. Occasionally there are some flames, but that's rare.

Diving in and participating is one of the best continuing ed experiences I've had.

Edit - typo. Al

[ September 28, 2005, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]

 

[Johnny Gooch]

Re: closet lighting issue

I understand the Ugly Argument!
410.8 (B) (1)permits a surface-mounted fixture with a completely enclosed lamp
410.8 (c) Types Not Permitted. fixtures with open or partially enclosed lamps.
How does that make an exposed bulb fixture on a pull chain OK?
This came up at a code class I attended a few weeks ago and was left unresolved. The instructor noted 210.70 (3)
Your Old Ugly carrying friend may be including closets as Storage or Equipment Space where a wall switch is required.
I think this is a fine example of reading too much into the qestion, a problem I seem to have.
Thanks for the expert advice and code refrences given here, I'm using the forum questions to help prepare for Minnesota Masters exam and have posted a question (for anyone interested) under the Exam Prep forum.
Johnny Gooch

 

[Physis 2]

Re: closet lighting issue

Physis 2 Do you actually not understand what I am talking about?

I guess not. I (I mean myself personally) wouldn't have used the phrase "pull chain type globe fixture" as a generic term for fixtures allowed by 410.8(B). It may be that I could have made the assumption that you knew you didn't need a pull a chain, but I chose to point it out rather than guess.

My apologies.

Edit: If my wording seemed offensive it wasn't intended.

[ September 28, 2005, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Physis 2 ]

 

[pulliteasy]

Re: closet lighting issue

Physis2 Sorry about the confusion. I need correcting and guidance in being proper with the electrical terms and phrases used in the NEC.
Thanks

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: closet lighting issue

Pulliteasy,

The NEC Handbook includes this bit of commentary in 410.8.

The requirements of 410.8(D) apply to incandescent and fluorescent lighting in clothes closets of various kinds of occupancies. The requirement is intended to prevent hot lamps or parts of broken lamps from coming in contact with boxes, cartons, blankets, and the like, stored on shelves and with clothing hung in closets.

To me, the totally enclosed incandescent luminaire is all about containing the hot bits of a shattered incandescent bulb, whether the fixture is recessed or surface mounted. If the luminaire won't hold the hot bits, it's not the correct luminaire that is spelled out in 410.8(D)

One of the common questions is whether a compact fluorescent with an Edison screw shell screwed into a standard porcelain lampholder (keyless or pull chain) can be considered as a fluorescent fixture and spaced accordingly (see: 410.8(D)(2) ). In my opinion, since nothing restricts the installation of an incandescent bulb after the compact fluorescent is removed, the porcelain lampholder must be installed by 410.8(D)(1). The 12" requirement of 410.8(D)(1) is impossible to meet in shallow or narrow closets. One must then use a more expensive luminaire or choose not to install a light.

[ September 29, 2005, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]

 

[Physis 2]

Re: closet lighting issue

Hi Al,

To me, the totally enclosed incandescent luminaire is all about containing the hot bits of a shattered incandescent bulb

I don't think the lamp has to break to be an ignition source. Just toss a wool sweater on there and you should be completely marshmallow ready in no time.

It's cool pulliteasy, we don't really have specific terminolgy for a lot of these lamp fixtures.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: closet lighting issue

Sam,

I don't think the lamp has to break to be an ignition source. Just toss a wool sweater on there and you should be completely marshmallow ready in no time.

Too true, too true.

The globe will aid in reducing the surface temp that the "stuff" gets up against.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: closet lighting issue

As I've come to understand (without taking the moment for the citation from the White Book) the plain old porcelain lampholder (keyless or pullchain, and whether porcelain or some other plastic, phenolic or fiber glass) is actually listed as a lampholder. All the other assemblies are luminaires, which house a lampholder capable of holding a lamp.

My guess is that this device is so ancient as to be grandfathered in as a lampholder.