I have always considered a island or dressing table to fall under the rules of closet storage space, when putting lights in a closet. This particular closet has a a 9’ ceiling with a 42” tall island. I have recess lights that are in the area between the island and shelves, but a light over the island is being requested.
Closet storage space
- Thread starter eds
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I had a similar situation only there were cabinets with doors on in the room. The owners wanted a chandelier over the island so I asked the inspector and he said have the architect go to the planning dept and change the name of the room to a dressing room. This made sense since there were closets everywhere and no clothing was exposed.
In your case the inspector may let it go if it was a recessed can with a closed trim. I would check with the authority having jurisdictiauthority having jurisdiction Technically it would not be compliant.
In your case the inspector may let it go if it was a recessed can with a closed trim. I would check with the authority having jurisdictiauthority having jurisdiction Technically it would not be compliant.
I know I am not ahj, but some common sense on the clearance rules would go a long way. I dont know how many times I have to say I can’t put a light over the dressing table/island. In all of my cases I have a minimum of 5’ from island top to ceiling, not likely to have boxes or clothes stacked high enough to present a fire hazard.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Common sense, codes, inspectors - words that don't ever belong in same sentence
Same luminaire that can throw a burning element onto clothing if in a "closet" can just as easily do same to bedding if in the "bedroom".
Difference from code perspective is the closet is a storage area and the bedroom is not.
When the closet is big enough to have a large table in the middle of it - is it still a closet, or is it some other type of room with smaller closet(s) within?
Why do they often have open lamp type luminaires above clothing displays in stores? Isn't the store just one big clothes closet?
Same luminaire that can throw a burning element onto clothing if in a "closet" can just as easily do same to bedding if in the "bedroom".
Difference from code perspective is the closet is a storage area and the bedroom is not.
When the closet is big enough to have a large table in the middle of it - is it still a closet, or is it some other type of room with smaller closet(s) within?
Why do they often have open lamp type luminaires above clothing displays in stores? Isn't the store just one big clothes closet?
blkmagik21
Senior Member
- Location
- Kennewick
Commercial rules are completely different
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
410.16 doesn't mention type of occupancy it applies to - that means it should apply to all occupancy types.
My comment wasn't intended to be too serious, but yet something to think about.
construct
Senior Member
- Location
- Branson, Missouri
Common sense, codes, inspectors - words that don't ever belong in same sentence
:rotflmao:
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
Common sense, codes, inspectors - words that don't ever belong in same sentence
Same luminaire that can throw a burning element onto clothing if in a "closet" can just as easily do same to bedding if in the "bedroom".
Difference from code perspective is the closet is a storage area and the bedroom is not.
When the closet is big enough to have a large table in the middle of it - is it still a closet, or is it some other type of room with smaller closet(s) within?
Why do they often have open lamp type luminaires above clothing displays in stores? Isn't the store just one big clothes closet?
I do find it humorous when you unload on inspectors Have you ever put you mark officially on another's work? -- The NEC has words that together become code - interpretation can certainly be ambiguous. Does one consider a base cabinet top a shelf or a counter? A clothes rod will always have a min 12" shelf storage area whether installed or not. I can install a surface mount flourescent 18" from the back wall over a closet rod with no shelf(how far above the rod must it be? The simple solution is to change the room name to dressing room as it is no longer a closet but does that room have to meet min 70 sq ft? They all sound simple to answer but always make sure you can justify your words to compliment NEC wwording.
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
Bit more food for thought -- I have an enclosed shower with a 10" ceiling(not unusual in my area) - per code I can install a keyless fixture with a normal A lamp -- I tried to fit a code change but the NFPA said there was no documentation is was a safety hazard.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
You ever just look at some of the rules we have to abide by, not just as electricians but as citizens in this world and just shake your head at some of what you see? A little humor is a way of dealing with some of it. Good intentions in the making of many rules end up interpreted differently than what the original intent was all the time.
Political discussion is not allowed on this site, yet the NEC which is the base for this site is nothing but political in it's own way:blink:
Sure one can say it says what it says, but it can be subject to interpretation as well as subject to change. Those changes based on new facts and/or opinions, and changes still get made even if not all agree on final outcome.
Inspectors can even get left with being required to enforce some things even if they don't feel it is right or lose their job if they don't do this.
Definitions become very important. They still can have unintended interpretations, situations never thought of can come up and make it complicated.
A room like being described in OP isn't something one sees around here, so that makes it somewhat harder for me to understand the situation, but I think I have a good idea of what is likely, and that is a room with clothes closet(s) within it and open space that is not a closet by most definitions yet in relation to the entire structure this whole area is the "clothes closet". This whole area is possibly much larger than most bedrooms in an "economy home".
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Must be a lot of small people in your area if they only have 10" ceilings
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
If the island is in the clothes closet then it is subject to the rules of clothes closets.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Here is a good example
Here is a good example
The definition quoted in post 9 defines a closet as “uninhabitable space”.
This would appear to be habitable to me.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I don't think any inspector would call this anything other than a closet. You don't live in here... I am sure the blueprints call it a closet.
Where do you sit, sleep or eat? All you can do is stand in there
Closet storage space
You don’t live in a bathroom, either. But it’s not a closet.
You sit on the bench to the right of the island while putting on your shoes.
I think it could legitimately called a dressing room which happens to have storage for clothing. I have something similar in my house.
You don’t live in a bathroom, either. But it’s not a closet.
You sit on the bench to the right of the island while putting on your shoes.
I think it could legitimately called a dressing room which happens to have storage for clothing. I have something similar in my house.
Coppersmith
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa, FL, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I have imagined owning a dressing room style closet many times however mine always has a long leather tufted bench to sit on. It would be where the island is.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
You don’t live in a bathroom, either. But it’s not a closet.
You sit on the bench to the right of the island while putting on your shoes.
I think it could legitimately called a dressing room which happens to have storage for clothing. I have something similar in my house.
I am not going to argue this.. I hope some day you get to do one and I would love to know what the inspector says.
Yes, you do have a part of your living in the bathroom. You have sanitation which is one of the def. of dwelling unit. A kitchen meets the other as you don't sleep in there but you do cook.
I agree the definition is not great but I cannot believe you really don't consider this a closet.
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