designer82
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston
A multi-family residential building has an indoor garage. Would you put CO detectors in the garage or is that just a nuisance waiting to happen?
Thanks
Thanks
CO detector in garage
- Thread starter designer82
- Start date
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I have never seen a CO detector in a garage. I would bet it may cause some nuisance alarms.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I see that some websites actually recommend CO detectors in a garage.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Do the manufacturers of CO detectors actually recommend installing them in a garage? I've seen heat detectors in garages but not CO detectors.
25yrApprentice
Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado
- Occupation
- Specialty Electrical Contractor
Short answer no, BUT... You can technically install a CO detector in a garage, but if a combustion car is ever parked in that garage, it will cause the detector to become unusable through exposure to exhaust (I think that the NOx and SO2 foul up the sensor and the CO concentration in car exhaust is low enough to not set off the alarm, but degrades the sensitivity of the unit in a short amount of time). Carbon monoxide is also heavier than air and typically sinks to the ground. That's why I've always thought that CO/smokie combo units installed on the ceiling were useless, because if the air gets saturated to the point that the CO is to the ceiling, everybody's already dead anyway.
There are some circumstances where you would WANT to install a CO detector in the garage though. For instance, if you have a home where a low efficiency gas water heater or furnace is located in the garage, say in a closet, and the garage is above a living space (I've seen some apartments/townhomes and tri levels like this), and the exhaust vent of the water heater gets clogged up by a bird or wasps etc, a CO detector would give you a heads up that there is some obstruction in the vent. This is double important if this happens to be an apartment with an electric car hookup, or the tenants only have bicycles. You know those young new age outdoorsy types in the city.
The smart thing to install in a garage in any case is a high heat sensor, like the ones we install in mechanical rooms. We've rewired several homes where someone has modified their electric vehicle and inadvertently caused a fire from the battery overheating and burning down the house. "When seconds matter, minutes kill" is a phrase my dad used to say. I always recommend installing a security camera in the garage, with the rash of people stealing cars from garages when people leave those proximity keys in their vehicle, and the stories I hear of thieves pulling into the garage when someone is out of town to take their time loading up a truck worth of valuables so no one can see. Plus you'll be able to see if your wife/husband/partner is home and just not answering the phone. Flames would set off the motion detection. As an electrician, taking into account that garages don't always have outlets, and if they do, they're located up high, it would be a good upsell to install an outlet down low and just get a cheapy costco plug-in unit in those odd-but-becoming-more-frequent circumstances.
There are some circumstances where you would WANT to install a CO detector in the garage though. For instance, if you have a home where a low efficiency gas water heater or furnace is located in the garage, say in a closet, and the garage is above a living space (I've seen some apartments/townhomes and tri levels like this), and the exhaust vent of the water heater gets clogged up by a bird or wasps etc, a CO detector would give you a heads up that there is some obstruction in the vent. This is double important if this happens to be an apartment with an electric car hookup, or the tenants only have bicycles. You know those young new age outdoorsy types in the city.
The smart thing to install in a garage in any case is a high heat sensor, like the ones we install in mechanical rooms. We've rewired several homes where someone has modified their electric vehicle and inadvertently caused a fire from the battery overheating and burning down the house. "When seconds matter, minutes kill" is a phrase my dad used to say. I always recommend installing a security camera in the garage, with the rash of people stealing cars from garages when people leave those proximity keys in their vehicle, and the stories I hear of thieves pulling into the garage when someone is out of town to take their time loading up a truck worth of valuables so no one can see. Plus you'll be able to see if your wife/husband/partner is home and just not answering the phone. Flames would set off the motion detection. As an electrician, taking into account that garages don't always have outlets, and if they do, they're located up high, it would be a good upsell to install an outlet down low and just get a cheapy costco plug-in unit in those odd-but-becoming-more-frequent circumstances.
Eddie702
Licensed Electrician
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
- Occupation
- Electrician
Around here we put heat detectors in garages
letgomywago
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington state and Oregon coast
- Occupation
- residential electrician
WA has been requiring a heat detector in the garage for a couple years now. That's a better option. Then do the CO inside the house near the garage
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Kidde, for one, has an operation range for their smoke/CO detectors of 40F to 100F. They specifically call out garages as a do not install location.
David Castor
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
CO detector and heat detector are doing two entirely different things. One is not a replacement for the other.
ramsy
Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Like your thinking for those gas clothes dryers, Water heaters, FAU, and pipes in garages.
Service contractors always smell gas near laundry, FAU, or water heater, especially in maintenance closets, since those yellow Flexible Appliance Connectors (FAC) are always DIY, and leaky.
There is no evidence of CO fowling with other gases, as long as the Alarm test button works as required.
Code minimum wont prohibit design for future expansion, much less installing safety devices in other rooms, unless not listed for the purpose. CO alarms next to concrete slabs will also keep cooler than garage rafters.
Besides, Kidde is mass produced, like the Sherman tanks of WWII. There were superior rivals in both cases.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
As long as you wire a box for a detector, it can be changed to suit the purpose.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Several years ago someone thought it would be good idea to put CO alarms in a warehouse that utilized propane powered fork lift. They got alarms pretty much any time the fork lift was in somewhat heavy use, particularly when loading or unloading full truckloads. Didn't take long to get rid of them. Perhaps they maybe should have taken into consideration that they maybe did need to bring more fresh air into the place, at least while operating the forklift.
rc/retired
Senior Member
- Location
- Bellvue, Colorado
- Occupation
- Master Electrician/Inspector retired
Do you have a code section for that statement? I retired when the 2018 IBC and IRC were the codes adopted and there was no such code.
Ron
915 of the IRC/IBC/ICC
rc/retired
Senior Member
- Location
- Bellvue, Colorado
- Occupation
- Master Electrician/Inspector retired
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
That's true, but unless you are in an area where the ambient temperature never falls below 32F - 40F, consumer CO detectors will never be suitable for garages, unless you always keep the garage heated to above 40F or so and NEVER leave the door open for extended periods unless the outside temperature is above 40F. If you want to go the commercial route, look up "Macurco". They are good to 0F.
drcampbell
Senior Member
- Location
- The Motor City, Michigan USA
- Occupation
- Registered Professional Engineer
Um, no. CO has a molecular mass of 28 grams per mole, which is almost exactly the same as air. (about 29 grams per mole) The buoyancy effect is essentially non-existent.
Modern motor vehicles (post-1996 or so) emit very, very little CO, NOx or SOx out the tailpipe. I don't know how sensitive sensors are to fouling, if at all, but there just isn't going to be enough of these fugitive emissions to worry about, especially if the engines aren't run with the door closed.
CO tailpipe emissions are now so low that it's no longer possible to commit suicide this way. CO2 will cause a pounding headache and have you bolting for fresh air long before CO concentrations become lethal.
Sulfur-oxides tailpipe emissions are pretty much not a thing any more. Beginning in 2006, the EPA phased in ultra-low-sulfur Diesel fuel regulations (a maximum of 15 ppm) There was a LOT of chatter about ULSD at the time, but hardly anybody noticed that the regulations also placed an ultra-low-sulfur limit on gasoline.
A balloon filled with carbon monoxide will float.