Code Issue

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pattbaa

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In wiring a bath-room in a dwelling-unit, I run a 12/2 cable directly from the CB panel to a receptacle-outlet in the bath-room, a 12/2 from the R-O to a switch-outlet, and a 12/2 from the S-O to a fixture-outlet, all outlets in the same bath-room.

The inspector cites a violation on the ground that the R-O must be a "seperate-circuit" with no additional outlets in the bath-room connected to the circuit.

How do I refute what I consider to be an erroneous interpretation of the NEC?
 
Re: Code Issue

Originally posted by pattbaa:
How do I refute what I consider to be an erroneous interpretation of the NEC?
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You refute it with taste and tact. Don't call your inspector a moron, for starters. As an inspector myself, I will be the first to say that we make mistakes. There is simply too much information in the codes for us to know it all. I realize this and hopefully your inspector does as well. The inspector who refuses to learn from the tradesman is a d*&n fool, in my opinion.

Assuming that your circuit only feeds this bathroom I believe you meet the exception in 210.11(C)(3). Talk with your inspector politley and discuss what you believe the intent is. Good luck and I hope this helps you. Let us know what happens if you don't mind.
 
Re: Code Issue

Revisit the definition, with the inspector, in Art. 100 of outlet
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
and the NEC Handbook adds: An example is a lighting outlet or a receptacle outlet.
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Re: Code Issue

Call him and cite your code section that allows for your installation. If this circuit feeds only this bathroom you should be fine unless your area has adopted a local code that doesn't allow it. If you call him a moron, don't do it to his face
:D :D (just kidding ryan, lol)
 
Re: Code Issue

The best practice is to find the compulsion of the inspector. Some are hunting addicts. Others like golf, cars, food, family, hiking, etc.

Greet the inspector warmly. Welcome him/her like the old friend that s/he is.

Right off start discussing his/her favorite compulsion-- I mean hobby. Keep the inspector distracted. Let them focus on their real love-- their hobby, themselves, or their loved ones.

Anytime s/he finds an error that you missed, say "yes sir" or "yes ma'am" (you may have other replies that are better and suitably respectful. Some will gig you if you say "yes, sir/ma'am" too many times).

The point is to work the hobby/family/love angle.

If the inspector finds a stopper, immediately acknowledge the concern of the inspector. If you feel you've done right-- then cite the code section that persuaded you to do the work the way you did. Explain clearly whey you did what you did. Then ask if it's really important to change the work. A statement like, "is that really important?" will usually get you signed off in a jiffy.

If the inspector orders you to change something you have a couple of options:

1. Change it.
2. Appeal it.

Remember the goal here is to get your job passed. Safety be damned! It all comes down to time & money and doing things twice just means lost time & lost money!

This post is intended to be helpful & humorous. Please notify me by PM if you notice any errors that require editing.
 
Re: Code Issue

Wayne...I must be really mean, but I've made very good friends rip down drywall to show me things. I guess I'm just harsh, but I think its funny when people use that approach!
 
Re: Code Issue

Ryan:

Wayne's response is straight from Dale Carnige (sp), a very sucessful sales course.

Most people do not care abourt your story, BUT they do care about themselves and love to talk about themselves.
 
Re: Code Issue

"Safety be damned" ?

Just what does NEC 90.1(A) and 90.1(B) and 90.5(A) mean ?

Throw the code book away ?
 
Re: Code Issue

wayne
That response is not characteristic of the way you usually respond.
There really is never a time to throw away safety to get the job finished.
I would be surprised if you really meant that.
Are there pain in the neck inspectors?... Are there pain in the neck contractors?...
I don't think we need to answer that, just do the right thing and most times we will come out ahead.

Pierre
 
Re: Code Issue

The phrase "safety be damned" was clearly intended in a spirit of satire. The sentence that follows this phrase says so. You don?t have to laugh at another person?s attempts at humor (Heaven knows that few people laugh at mine), but don?t take the phrase as a literal expression of the poster?s attitude towards our profession.
 
Re: Code Issue

Yes, it was mostly satire, and that part was intended to be satire.

If you are 100% sure you are right and if 100% of normal channels have been exhausted, it is OK to trick the inspector into signing off on your job.

If you are not 100% sure, the inspector is always right and his/her interpretation of a citation should be honored.

The more sure you are, and the more stubborn s/he is, the more likely it is that you are both wrong. Proceed with caution. Err on the side of safety.

../Wayne C.
 
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