Code requirements for LED lighting

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wafna

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Client wants to have LED under-counter lighting in the kitchen. The power supply (to be placed in the basement) is Class 2 listed (36 volts DC max; 700 ma constant current). The installation is cabled with 18 ga CM wiring. The inspector has blessed both the power supply and the cabling, but I have a question about the LED bulbs. Each power supply will be feeding several LEDs (these are the new 3-watt kind) run in series.

Each LED device is thermally epoxied to a copper bar for heat dissipation and the thought was to connect the LED "lamps" directly to the CM cabling. Will this cause the inspector to projectile vomit? The manufacturer of the LEDs states that there is no requirement for UL certification because they are in essence just light bulbs. FWIW, my understanding is that the UL has only recently begun to compile standards for LED-specific lighting.

Thanks for your help, folks.
 
The power supply (to be placed in the basement) is Class 2 listed

If that's the case then a Chapter 3 wiring method (class 1) is not required. He can use a CL3 or CL2 listed cable. If the cable is only listed CM then you cannot use it, however many are dual listed CM and CL2 or 3. It has to say CL2 or CL3 on it.

I assume you are talking about splicing the supply cable directly to the tails on the lights? That would be permissible with CL2 or CL3.

-Hal
 
The wiring is also CL2 listed so we should be ok there. HBiss, yes, the plan was to splice the cable directly to the tails on the lights. And then we have the issue: can the inspector legitimately refuse to pass us because there is no UL certification on the bulbs or the mounting surface?

Thanks again!
 
Since article 411 doesn't apply to this lighting installation since it's over 30 volts, doesn't article 410 automaticly apply then?
 
So, ah, we seem to have entirely different responses from two of the senior members of this forum. Shall I assume that this is a gray area at best?
 
wafna said:
So, ah, we seem to have entirely different responses from two of the senior members of this forum. Shall I assume that this is a gray area at best?
Click to expand...
I'm unclear on it, and I was mostly asking questions in a pseudo statement type of way. Okay, that makes no sense. Anyhow, my official answer is that I have no idea.
 
wafna said:
So, ah, we seem to have entirely different responses from two of the senior members of this forum. Shall I assume that this is a gray area at best?
Click to expand...

Wafna
A gray area...maybe not.

Sometimes it is difficult at best for the reader to completely understand what the OP has actually installed. Descriptions of the work installed are being conveyed to people who have not seen the installation or might not be familar with the product you have installed. (a picture really helps here)
So, maybe you could be somewhat more specific - even include the product model number so it can be looked up on the website.
 
Re: Code requirements for LED lighting

Fair enough. Here are two pictures of the configuration. The LEDs are Luxeon (by Phillips) K2 Stars. The star configuration has the LED emitter mounted to a printed circuit board. The wiring between LEDs has teflon insulation, for whatever that's worth. As I mentioned, the LED "package" is thermally epoxied to the copper bar.

http://www.luxeon.com/products/line.cfm?lineId=18

Thanks everyone for your help and comments.

wafna

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There is a change that has been accepted for the 2005 NEC that will relax the requirements in 411.4 by permitting Class 2 wiring methods to be used and concealed within walls, floors, and ceilings where the power supply is a listed Class 2 power supply and the wiring is installed in accordance with 725.52. There may be a drawback to this new permissive rule that should be considered. Tables 11(A) and 11(B) in chapter 9 do not permit a Class 2 power supply to have nameplate wattage that exceeds 100 VA or amperage that exceeds 5 amps at 30 volts or less. Comparing this 5-ampere value to the 25-ampere and higher wattage permission granted in Article 411 for low-voltage lighting systems will severely restrict the use of Class 2 power units. Class 2 power supplies will, however, provide an alternative cable that can be installed inside walls, ceilings, floors, cabinets, and other spaces where chapter 3 wiring methods were not easily installed.
 
There is a change that has been accepted for the 2005 NEC that will relax the requirements in 411.4 by permitting Class 2 wiring methods to be used and concealed within walls, floors, and ceilings where the power supply is a listed Class 2 power supply and the wiring is installed in accordance with 725.52.

The key here is listed Class 2 power supply. Forget about the tables in chapter 9. I have long been a critic of them and contend that they need to go because they don't apply only cause confusion. Here we have yet another contradiction, if it is listed as a class 2 supply that is all you have to know. It doesn't matter to you how it got that way.

-Hal
 
Thanks again, everyone, for your responses. But as I said before and not very clearly, the inspector is good with the power supply and good with the wiring, but I'm concerned about what he'll say when he sees some LEDs epoxied to a bar of copper. Is he going to say, "You can't install that because it's not UL-listed"?

My position is that this is not a luminaire (sounds like an old Chevy) but rather just some very low voltage (3.5 volts DC across each one) light emitting diodes. Some colleagues more experienced in solid state lighting believe that's the case as well, but if challenged, I'd like to be able to give an informed opinion as to WHY UL-listing is not required in this instance.

Does that help?

wafna
 
For inspectors, listing is one way we can feel more comfortable with electrical equipment being installed.
When a product such as what you are showing comes along, an inspector becomes "suspicous of what he/she may see.
For me, I am not familar at all with your product. I would need more information before I would accept the installation.
 
Pierre,

OK, I can understand your wanting more information, but what is the information that you would need to see? Datasheets on the LEDs? They should be in the link. Meaning absolutely no disrespect, but if hypothetically you were to fail me, what would the basis be?

Thanks very much.

wafna
 
I am not saying you have failed. What I would like to see is some information of a product that would make me feel more comfortable with the installation.
What would I like to see. Information that the product is suitable for the installation. Safety, etc...
 
Information that the product is suitable for the installation. Safety, etc...

Like the manufacturers installation instructions showing an installation similar to yours and a UL label on the product? Sounds fair enough.

-Hal
 
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