Seaweed
Member
- Location
- Surf City, N.C.
- Occupation
- Retired
Can you use 2 seperate tandon breakers side by for 2 air conditioners 240v in NC. I have been told yes. But my understanding in the code and manufacturer is no.
Code Requirements
- Thread starter Seaweed
- Start date
- Status
Seaweed
Member
- Location
- Surf City, N.C.
- Occupation
- Retired
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Electrically, yes, but codewise, no. There's no common internal or manual trip.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Agree with the BR breakers, I believe there are tandem breakers that have that function, though.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Would you need a common trip with no neutral, or 120V loads?
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
I have seen them with tie bars but I don't believe internal trip was available.
But then again how could it be......
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The two inner half-poles, yes.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Common trip tandem 2 pole
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
But it doesn't have an internal common trip.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
In pictured inner 2 are a 240V 30A common, the 2 outer are 240V 20A common.
They make these in various configurations that include 2 common 2 individual tied (MWBC use), 2 common 2 individual untied, and like pictured.
Seen and used various of these to gain a 30, 40 or 50A double in limited space freeing up by having two 20 and a double 50 in the space of 2 singles. (Mostly siemens lines)
Just have to make sure you are getting the correct one for application as they can look similar.
They make these in various configurations that include 2 common 2 individual tied (MWBC use), 2 common 2 individual untied, and like pictured.
Seen and used various of these to gain a 30, 40 or 50A double in limited space freeing up by having two 20 and a double 50 in the space of 2 singles. (Mostly siemens lines)
Just have to make sure you are getting the correct one for application as they can look similar.
Actually the pictured breaker is non-common trip, you can see the wording below the right handles
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Good catch, but just to be clear they do make them with BOTH inner and outers common trip (but sounds like OP only needs one pair common trip)
Not that I'm aware of but that doesn't mean there isn't.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Unless I read it wrong, 240.15 actually allows listed handle ties on line to line loads in most of our typical 120/208/240 wiring systems. I thought the code required an internal trip. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.
(B) Circuit Breaker as Overcurrent Device. Circuit breakers
shall open all ungrounded conductors of the circuit both
manually and automatically unless otherwise permitted in
240.15(B)(1), (B)(2), (B)(3), and (B)(4).
(2) Grounded Single-Phase Alternating-Current Circuits. In
grounded systems, individual single-pole circuit breakers rated
120/240 volts ac, with identified handle ties, shall be permitted
as the protection for each ungrounded conductor for line-to
line connected loads for single-phase circuits.
(3) 3-Phase and 2-Phase Systems. For line-to-line loads in
4-wire, 3-phase systems or 5-wire, 2-phase systems, individual
single-pole circuit breakers rated 120/240 volts ac with identi
fied handle ties shall be permitted as the protection for each
ungrounded conductor, if the systems have a grounded neutral
point and the voltage to ground does not exceed 120 volts.
(B) Circuit Breaker as Overcurrent Device. Circuit breakers
shall open all ungrounded conductors of the circuit both
manually and automatically unless otherwise permitted in
240.15(B)(1), (B)(2), (B)(3), and (B)(4).
(2) Grounded Single-Phase Alternating-Current Circuits. In
grounded systems, individual single-pole circuit breakers rated
120/240 volts ac, with identified handle ties, shall be permitted
as the protection for each ungrounded conductor for line-to
line connected loads for single-phase circuits.
(3) 3-Phase and 2-Phase Systems. For line-to-line loads in
4-wire, 3-phase systems or 5-wire, 2-phase systems, individual
single-pole circuit breakers rated 120/240 volts ac with identi
fied handle ties shall be permitted as the protection for each
ungrounded conductor, if the systems have a grounded neutral
point and the voltage to ground does not exceed 120 volts.
And I agree.
But, on an Air Conditioner is the Circuit Breaker actually considered the "Overcurrent Device" ? or is it the "Short Circuit Ground Fault" protection?
If the circuit breaker feeding an air conditioner is actually considered the "Overcurrent" device, then I don't see how we could you ever size our wire to a motor load with integral overload protection smaller than the OCPD feeding it.
JAP>
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
Because the rule for manually and automatically opening is for a circuit breaker used as an "overcurrent device"
On a motor load or air conditioner you're allowd to size your wire smaller because of the "overcurrent protection device" incorporated into the motor's overload, and, the circuit Breaker ahead of it actually then becomes the Short Circuit Ground Fault protection.
JAP>
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
- Status