Code section " special circumstnaces" is there such a code

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Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I understand from a fellow poster and Electrical engineer that there is a code section that allows one to violate a code due to special circumstances?

In all my years I have not read this. Can someone please direct me to this?

Thanks in advance
Sparky
 

jumper

Senior Member
90.4

By special permission, the authority having jurisdiction
may waive specific requirements in this Code or permit
alternative methods where it is assured that equivalent objectives
can be achieved by establishing and maintaining
effective safety.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
90.4

By special permission, the authority having jurisdiction
may waive specific requirements in this Code or permit
alternative methods where it is assured that equivalent objectives
can be achieved by establishing and maintaining
effective safety.
yea , ok But I am sure there is paperwork. The EE just does not violate the code when he prepares the plans hoping that no one will notice!
 
yea , ok But I am sure there is paperwork. The EE just does not violate the code when he prepares the plans hoping that no one will notice!
I was working on a grocery area of a new construction department store. The detail for our FMC did not provide means for support at every interval needed. Trying to field rig something wasn't going to get it as the rigging would be in plain sight.

So, I went to other stores of the same chain and noticed that they all had followed the detail which made each run a couple straps short.

Before we started our runs, I called the inspector, showed him what we had, showed him the detail and explained about going to the other stores.

He looked things over, thought about it for a bit and said, 'Well, what else can you do?' and told me so long as we did a good job installing per plans and we thought the installation would be OK, to go ahead, we had his permission.

No paperwork at all.
 

pete m.

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
yea , ok But I am sure there is paperwork. The EE just does not violate the code when he prepares the plans hoping that no one will notice!
There is paperwork that is involved. If the AHJ chooses to use 90.4 and grants "special permission" that special permission is in written form.

Article 100
Special Permission. The written consent of the authority having jurisdiction.

Pete
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
We have a form, "alternet methods of construction", that you fill out and we sign. But I'm not really that much of a hard you know what, so I could have been the inspector that K8MHZ was talking too.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Cowboy,
You've worked both ends of the stick. You see plans some from the same EE and maybe even the same mistakes. Do you honestly think these EE are forgetful or just trying to save a buck here and there.

What kind of scenarios are you seeing with Title 24 Lighting these days. I have many a GC's out that way and I know they don't comply.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
I understand from a fellow poster and Electrical engineer that there is a code section that allows one to violate a code due to special circumstances?

In all my years I have not read this. Can someone please direct me to this?

Thanks in advance
Sparky
yea , ok But I am sure there is paperwork. The EE just does not violate the code when he prepares the plans hoping that no one will notice!

I agree and then I don't agree, "as it was said"

My experience is that with any install that could cause this type of problem is that the application encountered a known physical situation that stumps a viable Code application. One either moves the equipment or something else gives...

Let's keep it above the board and recall that tons of readers are here to use and apply the Code and in general are not out to defeat, it.

I'll have to believe that there's a lot more work get done appling the Code than trying to slide on it...

:)
 

__dan

Senior Member
In Ct, by State Statute adopting and amending the NEC, the local AHJ is not allowed to accept variances from the code. The statute offers application to the Chief State Building Official's office for requesting variances from the code. I'm sure this statute is in place to limit code variances to "none".
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I understand from a fellow poster and Electrical engineer that there is a code section that allows one to violate a code due to special circumstances?

In all my years I have not read this. Can someone please direct me to this?

Thanks in advance
Sparky
It is not unusual for there to be some provision in the enacting acts and or regulations that put a particular code in place for some kind of allowance for special circumstances.

It is not something that an inspector would be allowed to agree to.

They are not commonly granted, largely because they just are not needed.

Keep in mind that the code means nothing unless some entity (such as your state legislature in concert with the governor) that has access to guys with guns to enforce that code, decides that it means something.

They can add whatever language to it that they want. The enabling act often sets up some kind of board that is authorized to add additional requirements to the code, remove sections from the code, or modify them as they see fit, along with granting exceptions.

In Chicago, the exceptions are readily available (unmarked small bills, please). But most places, they are not common at all.
 
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TobyD

Senior Member
I talked to the cheif inspector and was told to proceed with a project.This was a older building with obivious code infractions on today's standards.So, I was trying to save the owner some time and money.Thus, the deputy inspector looks at the older portion as well and it is now being brought up to standards.Although ,I'll make a little more profit I feel like there's some inconsistency here.Keep in mind there's not any code in our area concerning the details of the scope of work I 'm to perform.So, I'll go forth and complete the job and repairs as requested.This is storm damage related....
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I was working on a grocery area of a new construction department store. The detail for our FMC did not provide means for support at every interval needed. Trying to field rig something wasn't going to get it as the rigging would be in plain sight.

So, I went to other stores of the same chain and noticed that they all had followed the detail which made each run a couple straps short.

Before we started our runs, I called the inspector, showed him what we had, showed him the detail and explained about going to the other stores.

He looked things over, thought about it for a bit and said, 'Well, what else can you do?' and told me so long as we did a good job installing per plans and we thought the installation would be OK, to go ahead, we had his permission.

No paperwork at all.

That type of thing happens, but without any paperwork it is, and will remain a violation that the installing contractor is on the hook for if push comes to shove.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
So with all said it appeasrs abuse here is not going to go away any time soon.
What is the best way to deal with this and for the EC not to loose his shorts.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Does corruption like this still go on ? I thought this happened in the past.
It was only within the last few years that the city hired an 18 YO kid to be a building inspector. No experience, but was "connected". It got attention only because it appears that he asked for a larger contribution than was customary.

In Chicago, this kind of thing never went away. And probably never will. It is a part of the very fiber of the city. If you tried to root it out, the city would collapse on itself.

The system of corruption is so embedded in the city that there are what amount to rules about how it is conducted. And the kid violated those rules so it was OK for him to be outed. If he had followed the rules on how things are done in Chicago, no one would have cared.
 
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jimthesparks

Member
Location
Chicago, IL
It was only within the last few years that the city hired an 18 YO kid to be a building inspector. No experience, but was "connected". It got attention only because it appears that he asked for a larger contribution than was customary.

In Chicago, this kind of thing never went away. And probably never will. It is a part of the very fiber of the city. If you tried to root it out, the city would collapse on itself.

The system of corruption is so embedded in the city that there are what amount to rules about how it is conducted. And the kid violated those rules so it was OK for him to be outed. If he had followed the rules on how things are done in Chicago, no one would have cared.
He got outed because of the porch collapse that killed 12 and injured several others. The press started looking into inspections and found several flaws including him. He was the inspector that gave final approval and several other other porches that were deemed unsafe.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
That type of thing happens, but without any paperwork it is, and will remain a violation that the installing contractor is on the hook for if push comes to shove.
This has been my reasoning from the begining. The issue is how to deal with EE and GC pushing us into this situation.:eek:hmy:
 
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