Code Violation to leave CBs in Lock-Out with Feeders to J-Box?

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JediMike

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Hi All, this is my first time posting a questions, but have been searching the site for a few years to get answers......and thanks to you all! :thumbsup:

I am an electrical designer and we have a project with an existing 480V switchboard and existing circuit breaker. The client wants us to show feeders to a junction box, cap off the feeders to make safe, and leave the existing 800A circuit breaker with lock-out/tag-outs. They are going to have a building shutdown (large school) to add a new RTU (part of our scope) and want to keep from having another shutdown in the future when/if they have a use for their existing spare circuit breaker.

Is this a code violation, and if so, what section?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
 
JediMike said:
...with lock-out/tag-outs. ...
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If these are going to be locked out (a specific accountable procedure) long term, who is signing it and maintaining the key to be able to sign back in to unlock it when needed?

Or are you just using the term for capping it, tagging it, and walking away?
 
I see no NEC problem with your installation. Even if someone turns the switch on what would happen? Nothing.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 
JediMike said:
...with lock-out/tag-outs...
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This sounds like an example of an equipment or maintenance lockout, which would not be governed the same a LOTO to establish an electrically safe working condition (personnel protection).

I have seen many maintenance locks that have been installed for more than 10 years. In one case, no existing employee had ever even met the person whose name was on the lock tag.
 
If the feeder is properly made safe/capped-off and everything is well labeled, does the breaker even need to be locked? Might be tagged "out of service" for "for future use", but I don't think a lock is necessary.

Not nearly as cheap :D, but you could also put an 800a disconnect where the jbox would go. When it's time to remove that and wire in whatever, then LOTO the feeder breaker. Certainly cheaper than a shutdown...
 
Thank you for the input.

The electric room itself is locked, an only accessible by the facilities manager. He would also be the one to keep the LOTO keys.

We did suggest a disconnect, but the client doesn't want it.

We are going to proceed with the design, and see if the AHJ has any comments on it.
 
JediMike said:
Thank you for the input.

The electric room itself is locked, an only accessible by the facilities manager. He would also be the one to keep the LOTO keys.

We did suggest a disconnect, but the client doesn't want it.

We are going to proceed with the design, and see if the AHJ has any comments on it.[/QUOTE]If by AHJ you mean someone enforcing NEC, this should be fine, there is no violation. What you are trying to prevent with what you described is issues with hot work permits, or shutdown to avoid hot work permits. Those are not NEC issues but rather safety procedure issues. The real AHJ over those will be safety compliance people, maybe even an insurance company. If there were an OSHA inspection while this was in place and it wasn't locked or tagged they probably say little or nothing about it if nobody is working on it at the time. A lock or tag on it will draw more attention to it. A tag that says out of service maybe gets little further attention, other conditions on the tag or a lock maybe makes them look further into what is going on with this.
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Cap the conductors (and label where they're being fed from), and label the CB "SPARE."

Job done.

No different than pulling an extra 20A 120V circuit to a j-box for future use. Your wirenuts will just be larger :D



ScnereyDriver
 
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