Coiled copper around terminated wire?

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jaggedben

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See attachment for what my question is about. (Picture was taken by one of my guys, I didn't see it in person.)

What is that? Is it a product? Or something done with bare wire by the electrician? What would be the reason for it?
 

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jaggedben said:
See attachment for what my question is about. (Picture was taken by one of my guys, I didn't see it in person.)

What is that? Is it a product? Or something done with bare wire by the electrician? What would be the reason for it?
Click to expand...

I would say done by the electrician because the lug was too large?
 
K8MHZ said:
First for me, too. I couldn't help notice the precision of the coils. It's almost like they were machine made.
Click to expand...
I think that it is sometimes used with fine stranded wire instead of using foil or a pin termination.
It also looks a little bit like something I might see on high temp wire in a heating appliance, but that does not seem to be the case here. Is this a breaker panel?
 
K8MHZ said:
They don't look to large to me.
Click to expand...

Really,
Think at this way.
How much space do those coils take then look at the space currently around the lug.

I bet this panel is a 200 amp and the lugs are rated 2 and above!
 
Sierrasparky said:
I would say done by the electrician because the lug was too large?
Click to expand...
Similar to what I was thinking, but in the opposite direction. The lugs were too small, so instead of just clipping the strands (which is illegal), he attempted to avoid the technical violation by wrapping a strand or two nicely around the end, just after the insulation, but before the lug itself. You could easily tell by loosening the lugs and pulling the cable out, I bet the strands going in are fewer than what's in the cable.

Still a violation though. If the lug is too small for the bale, it's too small for the cable.

I see your point though too: the lugs would no go down SMALL enough for that cable, so he wrapped loose strands around the end to make the lug clamp down on it. As I look at it more, your scenario makes more sense in that the lug openings DO look too big.

As good as that looks, it's still a violation. Not suitable for the use.
 
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Well, I guess I can take some pride in having come up with a true novelty. :D Thanks for all the responses so far.

The idea that the lugs are too large makes the most sense. It turns out that the panel label is partially ripped off, so it could be a 200A panel, and the feeder is on a 125A breaker. (It is an otherwise ordinary Eaton/CH breaker panel.) I believe the conductors are 2awg but it's possible they are a size off from that (i.e. 1awg or 3awg).

I have other reasons to believe this install was not above board, although it seems to have been done by someone knowledgeable who was cutting corners, rather than an amateur. I ended up not having time to call the customer today to ask questions, so maybe I'll have more to share later.

I'm also weirded out by how neat the coils are. That's what made me wonder if it was a legit product I didn't know about.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Really,
Think at this way.
How much space do those coils take then look at the space currently around the lug.

I bet this panel is a 200 amp and the lugs are rated 2 and above!
Click to expand...
Most lugs used on a 200 or even 225 amp device will accept 6 AWG to 300 kcmil conductors.

Jraef said:
Similar to what I was thinking, but in the opposite direction. The lugs were too small, so instead of just clipping the strands (which is illegal), he attempted to avoid the technical violation by wrapping a strand or two nicely around the end, just after the insulation, but before the lug itself. You could easily tell by loosening the lugs and pulling the cable out, I bet the strands going in are fewer than what's in the cable.

Still a violation though. If the lug is too small for the bale, it's too small for the cable.

I see your point though too: the lugs would no go down SMALL enough for that cable, so he wrapped loose strands around the end to make the lug clamp down on it. As I look at it more, your scenario makes more sense in that the lug openings DO look too big.

As good as that looks, it's still a violation. Not suitable for the use.
Click to expand...
Sure looks to me like the conductor with insulation on it would fit into the lug or at least come very close to fitting.
 
It looks to me that the lug is sized fine with the wire. I think maybe the guy just took a long strand of wire and wrapped it around the wire bundle.

I don't see any violation here if so. Just a little unusual.

Maybe it is fine stranded wire? That would be a violation then even though the solution probably is a safe one.
 
petersonra said:
It looks to me that the lug is sized fine with the wire. I think maybe the guy just took a long strand of wire and wrapped it around the wire bundle.

I don't see any violation here if so. Just a little unusual.

Maybe it is fine stranded wire? That would be a violation then even though the solution probably is a safe one.
Click to expand...
So if the installer decided to use close fitting copper plumbing tubing instead of wrapping with that bare wire you would call that acceptable as well?

I agree it would likely work out pretty well but doesn't mean it is listed for use in that way.
 
kwired said:
Most lugs used on a 200 or even 225 amp device will accept 6 AWG to 300 kcmil conductors. ...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately with the ripped panel label I can't confirm one way or the other what the lugs are listed for.

petersonra said:
...

Maybe it is fine stranded wire? That would be a violation then even though the solution probably is a safe one.
Click to expand...

I can tell from other pictures that it is not fine stranded wire. The strands are visible on the bottom side of the lugs in a couple photos. It seems the coiling doesn't go all the way through the lug, but I can't be sure how far it goes.
 
peter d said:
I hate wire ties in a panel. :happyyes:
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haha. The left one is clipped a bit wonky, but neat install otherwise.

as for the coils around the primary lugs, obviously they are copper Heli-coils, used for stripped out wire. ;)

(if you dont get my sarcasm, it's okay. I have no idea what the pic is showing, just that it is creative. Probably wrong, but creative).
 
kwired said:
So if the installer decided to use close fitting copper plumbing tubing instead of wrapping with that bare wire you would call that acceptable as well?

I agree it would likely work out pretty well but doesn't mean it is listed for use in that way.
Click to expand...

Note I did say it would be a violation, even though safe. There are actually some pieces of switchgear using bus bars made out of copper pipe that are listed.
 
petersonra said:
Note I did say it would be a violation, even though safe. There are actually some pieces of switchgear using bus bars made out of copper pipe that are listed.
Click to expand...
Note they are listed - and probably not a soft copper like some copper plumbing tubing is.
 
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