Cold water bond if piping is pex
- Thread starter Daja7
- Start date
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wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Any metal underground water pipe (service lateral or otherwise) in direct contact with earth for 10 ft counts as a grounding electrode, and you have to connect it to the grounding electrode system. 250.52(A)(1)
Cheers, Wayne
Cheers, Wayne
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
The metal pipe is the part that is buried or the metal pipe is in the house?
the metal pipe from the street enters the foundation for 1" then to pex for all. Another inspector from other jurisdiction told me that if you are using the 2 rods as GEC then the building plumbing pipe if copper only need to be bonded any where in the system. all plumbing is pex.
I will try to connect to the 1" section but may be tough. Different inspectors different interpretations.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The inspector who told you to bond anywhere is incorrect. You need to connect to the 1" of copper that comes in from the street and you need 2 ground rods.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
It's funny that we have to prove an incoming metal pipe qualifies as an electrode if we want to use it, but we also have to prove it doesn't qualify if we don't want to use it.
What I'm referring to is:
On one job, I was able to get away with using only one existing rod in a concrete-floored basement because a new, all-copper water service was being installed, of which I took pics.
On another, I was told I had to use two rods because I was unable to show that an existing copper water service was continuous and in contact with the earth for at least ten feet.
What I'm referring to is:
On one job, I was able to get away with using only one existing rod in a concrete-floored basement because a new, all-copper water service was being installed, of which I took pics.
On another, I was told I had to use two rods because I was unable to show that an existing copper water service was continuous and in contact with the earth for at least ten feet.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes that is the answer. A 1" stub might be just long enough for a pipe clamp.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Could add a short metal nipple to extend the water line, but the plumber is probably no longer on site.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Or have a short brass nipple installed. If stub is copper clamp will need to be listed for copper tube
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
A standard pipe clamp is only about 1/2"-5/8" thick. I would probably land the GEC first, then attach it to the pipe.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
That's the clamp I was thinking of. It should fit on 1" of nipple. I would even chip out a little bit of concrete or block to make it fit if necessary.
Ravenvalor
Senior Member
- Location
- Piedmont region of NC
Is the intent to meet 250.4A(4) and/or (5) ?
Another scenario that I am pondering now is - if there is lets say in the crawlspace some metal cold water piping as well as non-metallic piping does the #4 solid wire going to where the 1" of copper enters the building need to be unspliced or can it first go to the sections of metallic piping first?
Thanks for the clarification.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The grounding electrode conductor must be continuous. The copper water lines in the crawl space are not an electrode however the part that extends in from the street is an electrode, assuming there is 10' copper in the ground.
You can go to the copper water lines first but then it must be unbroken to the water line from the street. There is a lot of discussion as to whether you need to bond the water lines if they are broken with pieces of plastic.
You can go to the copper water lines first but then it must be unbroken to the water line from the street. There is a lot of discussion as to whether you need to bond the water lines if they are broken with pieces of plastic.
Ravenvalor
Senior Member
- Location
- Piedmont region of NC
Great stuff, thanks.
If the copper water lines in the crawlspace are not an electrode what are they called (in the code book)?
Around here they like for us to bond all of the water lines that are broken by pieces of plastic.
If one were to go the copper water lines first, leap-frogging the pieces of plastic can one eventually end up at the water pipe electrode? There could be several breaks in the grounding electrode conductor. Or does the grounding electrode conductor need to be uncut?
If the metal water line entering the crawlspace from the street is something other than copper (galvanized or lead pipe) can the grounding electrode conductor be cut?
Thanks for the great help.
Last edited:
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
They are called copper water lines and they must be bonded. An electrode must have some contact with the earth
That is nuts.. you can tell them that I said so...lol If you are in the piedmont you can't be far from me... I have never heard of an inspector wanting that
The grounding electrode conductor must be uncut. Imo, it is easier to go to the metal pipe from the street then hit the copper lines. Those are called bonding jumpers and they don't need to be continuous.
The code says metal water lines
250.52(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground
water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or
more (including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe) and
electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by
bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the
points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor
and the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed.
Thanks for the great help.
Ravenvalor
Senior Member
- Location
- Piedmont region of NC
Thank God for 250.64(C)(1 - 4) 
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