Why hasn’t the code established a standard for wiring circuits of different voltage aside from properly identifying and grouping if more than one nominal voltage is present? You cant re identify certain conductors under certain size but you can use for example black red blue for 277v circuits and vise versa . Whats the thought process behind this?
Color code
- Thread starter pedro1200
- Start date
Say a building has 480 delta with one phase grounded and new 480 wye system added.
If you color code by voltage you'd have no way to tell them apart.
Not much of a benefit safety wise I'd rather know which system is which not what the voltage is.
If you color code by voltage you'd have no way to tell them apart.
Not much of a benefit safety wise I'd rather know which system is which not what the voltage is.
Birken Vogt
Senior Member
- Location
- Grass Valley, Ca
Sometimes I want to use black red blue for phase order.
Other times I might want to use a group of blacks for circuit 1, a group of reds for circuit 2, etc.
Freedom makes America great.
Other times I might want to use a group of blacks for circuit 1, a group of reds for circuit 2, etc.
Freedom makes America great.
Thats great but it didn’t really answer the question
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Because the NEC already oversteps it's claim to not be a design manual by too much.
How's that for an answer?
Besides, there are already plenty of color requirements in the code.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I did that when I ran three 40a circuits in a single 1" MC to a tankless water heater.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
One problem with new color codes is the millions of existing installations that don't follow them.
Last edited:
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
There used to be a color code standard but was removed in the early 70s. Why? A electrician would see a red wire and assume it was 120 when it was actually 277. The CMP wants you to test and not assume.
Green was allowed as a hot conductor until the 2005 NEC
There are actually very clear rules for identifying phase conductors where more than one nominal voltage is used.
But why not submit a proposal for colors? Proposals for 29 code will be accepted late this year
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Exactly!
This is what I call 4 answers to a code question
1. Code answer
2. AHJ answer
3. Toms answer
4. Truck answer
#4 rules for wire colors
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
colors are really more to aid in keeping track of what is what during installation. Unless you are a brother in law fiddling with stuff you shouldnt be messing with, no one should be making assumptions about what something is or isnt just by the color.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Helped an EC with a project a week or so ago. He is color blind. We had a brief conversation about the color of a wire and of course, we disagreed. The waitress we asked for confirmation had a different answer.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I'm curious about what she said.
She said, "Guy's this is a Denny's and we change shifts in 5 minutes. Please just pay so I can get my tip. You nerds can go sit in the Home Depot parking lot and talk about this."I'm curious about what she said.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Small town Hispanic restaurant and she was well aware of our conversation. We all laughed at her answer. Not sure if she was being a little SA or not.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If there is only one system then the color codes do not matter. In a dwelling with 120/240 you can use black, red, blue, brown, orange, yellow, purple, pink for ungrounded condcutors and white or gray as the neutral. What benefit would it be to limit the colors on that system?
Now IMO if there are two systems like 208Y/120 and 480Y/277 then there should be the typcial standard colors. The NEC requires you to designated which colors will be used with each system. For now that's the best you're going to get.
Eddie702
Licensed Electrician
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
- Occupation
- Electrician
I am slightly color blind as well. Has messed me up a few times. When I was in school 53 years ago they got me a summer job wiring control panels in a shop. We used to mount all the components and then the first thing we would do is take the print and wire all the neutrals.
They had me work with an old timer for a week or two and then turned me loose to wire my first panel on my own. So I got started and was pretty proud of the way it was going got the neutrals done and started on the other circuits. I was about 90% done when the boss stopped by to have a look.
"What's all the pink wire for"? I had mistaken light pink for white for all the neutrals. It still looked like white to me until I held a white wire next to it. I if I recall that panel went to the Cost Guard Station in Cape May NJ. Wonder if it is still in service. Probably not.
He didn't have me change the pink the panel had to get shipped.
Red & Brown can be an issue as well. Sometimes light yellow and white.
They had me work with an old timer for a week or two and then turned me loose to wire my first panel on my own. So I got started and was pretty proud of the way it was going got the neutrals done and started on the other circuits. I was about 90% done when the boss stopped by to have a look.
"What's all the pink wire for"? I had mistaken light pink for white for all the neutrals. It still looked like white to me until I held a white wire next to it. I if I recall that panel went to the Cost Guard Station in Cape May NJ. Wonder if it is still in service. Probably not.
He didn't have me change the pink the panel had to get shipped.
Red & Brown can be an issue as well. Sometimes light yellow and white.
There should be but there isn’t. Technically you can use any color for 120/208 and or 277/480. Yet they have strict guidelines for colors in other scenarios. Its just not consistent imo
I worked in electrical maintenance at a textile mill many years ago, and we had every voltage and system type in existence. The place was 100 years old and had machines from all over the world. The main service was 575 volt ungrounded delta. Transformers throughout the building made 208Y/120, 240/120 delta, 480Y/277, 416Y/240, 380Y/220, and on and on. They don't make enough colors to give each of those systems a unique set.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
Basically grounded conductor, grounding conductor, and high leg.
Code needs less regulations, not more. We’re doing alright out here….
You can narrow the specific requirements down to the most common nominal voltage 120/208 120/240 277/480 and then have an exception for the scenario you just spoked about.But good point