Color Code

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elektrafried

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I'm wiring a Dentist's Office lease space in a three-story building.There is an electrical room on each floor with distribution switchgear for that floor and each lease has it's own panels wired off the gear in the electrical room.There is a lighting panel in the electrical room for the 277v lighting on the whole floor,all 277v lighting comes out of that panel and any 120v lighting that may be in each lease is wired off the panels in the particular lease.The electrical engineer that drew up the prints has a color code listed,Black,Red,Blue for the 120/208 panels and Brown,Red,Blue for the (277/480)lighting panel.I have been installing electrical work for 25 years as of last August and when I started we had color codes we went by,277/480 was Brown,Orange and Yellow.I know things have changed over the years but my concern is safety,I know there are engineers on here and I would like to know if there is a logic to this design.Any insight appreciated.
 
Re: Color Code

It sounds to me like 210.4(D) will be violated.

EDIT: Unless this refers to the feeder circuit only, in which case it owuld comply. Note that it would not comply under the 2005, however.

[ November 10, 2004, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
 
Re: Color Code

Thank you for your reply.The color code is for the branch circuits,the lighting panel was wired a couple years ago when the building was built and is not included in my prints.The electrician who wired the lighting panel marked his feeders the old school way,Brown,Orange Yellow.
 
Re: Color Code

The electrician who wired the lighting panel marked his feeders the old school way,Brown,Orange Yellow.
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It should be noted there are no NEC requirements to use brown, orange and yellow in this case.

For instance, you could you use brown, orange, and yellow for 120/208 and pink, purple and blue for 480/277 if you so desired, and this would be fine (as long as 210.4(D) is met).

There is a code requirement to use brown, orange, and yellow in the NEC, but it has nothing to do with 480 volts. Hint: Health Care facilities. :)
 
Re: Color Code

Originally posted by peter d:
The electrician who wired the lighting panel marked his feeders the old school way,Brown,Orange Yellow.
Click to expand...
It should be noted there are no NEC requirements to use brown, orange and yellow in this case.

For instance, you could you use brown, orange, and yellow for 120/208 and pink, purple and blue for 480/277 if you so desired, and this would be fine (as long as 210.4(D) is met).

There is a code requirement to use brown, orange, and yellow in the NEC, but it has nothing to do with 480 volts. Hint: Health Care facilities. :)
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Sorry about the above mishap.Peter,I am quite aware of the color code status and I don't like it.I believe the fact was 'noted' in my original post. (but thanks for the help) I have no problem with design or flexibility using Brown Orange and Yellow for 277/480 only on my jobs unless instructed otherwise by an engineer and I've been running work for 20 years now.You want to use pink and purple that's your business,I think it's dangerous.Makes trouble-shooting a lot more time consuming too,which costs more money in the end which is always passed on to the customer.I accept the changes I have seen in the industry but I don't have to like them.
 
Re: Color Code

Looks like this may be a typo from the engineer.
They probably copy and pasted the Black, Red, Blue and didn't finish editing to Brown, Orange, Yellow.
You should submit an RFI to clarify.
You can't use red and blue for both 120/208 and 277/480
 
Re: Color Code

I thought so too until I looked farther doen the list - he has the ground for the 277/480 listed as red.I have the prints here,if I can I will scan the section and post it this evening.A meeting was held already and the matter is being addressed.I also have an e-mail in to the engineer asking him if this was what he intended and inviting him to join this Forum.
 
Re: Color Code

I haven't looked this up to verify it, but I am almost positive ground can not be red.

I also don't think the neutrals for 208 V and 480V can be the same color. At least not if they are in the same jbox or conduit. Again, I didn't look it up, but I think it is a violation.

Steve
 
Re: Color Code

It certainly is a violation to use the same color for different system grounded conductors.
The NEC considers this so important it devotes an entire article to it, Art 200, and take a look at 200.6(D). This requirement has been in the NEC for a long time, so perhaps the old school person would know it. there was a slight change in the 2002 cycle to only allow white or gray. In the 1999 NEC and earlier, a gray conductor was a phase conductor (never a neutral) and in the 2002 NEC a gray conductor becomes a grounded neutral conductor. We mis-identified all grounded neutrals with gray in 1999 NEC and before, and the requirement was in the 1999 NEC that the second grounded neutral condutor would be white with a stripe not green.
 
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